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Discussion Starter #1
Two questions really

Can anyone point me to the right place in the hardware store for the right kind of attachments to add to the bottom of a toilet seat to attach it to either a rocket box or bucket with or w/o gamma lid (realizing theses will be different - haven't decided where I'm going with this yet). Just some small angle iron, etc? Any tips on how to do this appreciated

Legal use of rocket boxes, without ecosafe or other inserts, on the GC vs Yampa / Green / Idaho?? I've read somewhere, maybe here, that at least on the Grand you have to have some type of unit with an inherent value to disincentivize just chucking the whole, filled unit into the dumpster at the end of the trip. Of course, with current cost of rocket boxes, value has gone way up. But talking with the GC outfitters, they just send out empty boxes + seat on their rental trips, but maybe outfitters have a special dispensation since they will properly take care of the dumping

I could have this all wrong. Appreciate any advice.

- Jon
 

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Hi Duct,

I just screwed two pieces of aluminum angle to the bottom of the seat, at the correct location to center the seat on the box. Make sure it's sized to hold the seat firmly.

I'm not aware of any requirement in the Grand for rocket box liners for non-commercial trips. I've seen and heard of lots of plain rocket box systems down there.

Here's the relevant portion of the regulation.

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The toilet system must provide for secure containment and adequate volume of storage. Human waste must be deposited directly into the container. The main river trip toilet system and system used at camps must be the washable, reusable type allowing for the sanitary transfer of waste materials to septic vaults or sewage treatment facilities. For day hikes and when the river trip is in progress between camps, trips must as an alternative use toilet systems of the type that use dry chemical/enzymes to render solid human waste into nonhazardous products acceptable for disposal in permitted landfills. (Products currently known to meet this criteria and render solid human waste into nonhazardous products include the PETT System from Phillips Environmental Products, Inc and the Restop 2 from American Innotek, Inc.) Because of their potential for leaking, plastic bucket systems like the “Scat Packer” are NOT permitted on the Colorado River within the Grand Canyon. Used PETT/Wag Bags must be placed in the trash and that trash MUST be stored in a waterproof container like a 20 MM ammo can. Toilet containers that have used PETT/Wag Bags in them cannot be washed out at the SCAT machine in Meadview.

The following components comprise an acceptable system:

A. Washable reusable toilet system designed to contain and store human waste, i.e., welded plastic storage boxes, aluminum boxes, etc. Do not store toilet or associated toilet articles next to food or food equipment to prevent cross-contamination.

B. Toilet seat. A disinfectant should be used to kill pathogens on the toilet seat.

C. Use heavy duty rubber gloves during toilet set-up or clean-up and disinfect them after each use.

D. Many commercially available chemical additives and holding tank deodorants are available. The park strongly suggests the use of non-toxic, non-formaldehyde based additives to lessen the impacts to sewage treatment facilities. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen.

E. Toilet paper, hand-washing water dispenser, and soap. It is suggested that an antibacterial soap be used. Bar soap is not recommended. A system which allows flowing water to rinse soap off hands without contaminating hands in the process is recommended. The rinse system should not employ the use of beverage coolers due to possible contamination of the spigot.

F. Due to the impact of high volumes of river trip members visiting the same areas, when hiking away from your river camp, bag all human feces and bring it back to your river camp and deposit it in your toilet.

***
Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks much Rich.

After rereading my first post, wanted to be clear it's not my intention to just fill the boxes and then dump them, especially now that the value of my rocket box collection is approaching that of my retirement plan.

But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it :D, than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use.
 

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Two lengths of 1-1/2" PVC pipe sliced lengthwise on a table saw so the slip over the edge of the rocket box, one on each side, works quite nicely. Is both inexpensive and compact. For our system, we installed RV clean out and garden hose fittings on a single rocket box lid so if there is no scat packet, any dump station or septic/sewer clean out line will do. The same lid can be moved from box to box to clean out more than one.
 

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We use the seat on a gamma lid with bucket system. Here's how I've attached the seat..... buy an extra gamma lid. Cut out the center portion, leaving only the outer portion with the threads. Buy a basic toilet seat with a wood core. Center the seat on the gamma lid and mark it for position.. Screw the seat to the lid using short screws. This took some trial & error to get screws that were long enough, but not too long that they came up through the seat (ouch). A friend tried to use Gorilla Glue alone, and it works for awhile, but then the glue dried out and the seat came apart. One thing we learned the hard way was to add some adhesive backed foam insulation strips to seal any gaps between the seat & lid where creepy crawlies will get in. That's something to watch for no matter what system you use. We add carry handles on the sides of the bucket with waterproof neoprene washers. Makes it easier to carry upright and to strap down on the boat. We have used this system on the Main Salmon, Middle Fork, Rogue, Desolation, San Juan with no problems. We've used these for 10 years, and they are going strong. The buckets fit very well in scat machines. Making a gamma lid toilet costs about $30-40.

These pics are of my first toilet. On future ones I cut out more of the center of the gamma lid.
 

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"But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it :grin:, than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use."

Which brings to mind a story.
I am a big fan of the Eco Safe system. Not saying it is the best for every one, It just works for me.

Some years ago after a fun trip down the Salt River AZ, first week of April (hot weather that year), we were slow at the take out. Could not find a place in Globe to dump. Just put the rocket box in the trailer and headed back to Tulsa Town. Same deal at home, tired and the rocket box stayed in the trailer longer than it should have. Finally took the groover to a local RV dump and flushed it as per normal. Nothing solid flushed out, looked inside and it was a solid block of poop in the bottom. Took me a long time and very careful use of a hammer and extra long big blade screw driver to get the material out of the eco safe unit. Since then on take out day morning I have put a generous amount of dish washing liquid and some river water into the eco safe and let the normal travel shaking action liquify the poop etc on the way to a dump station. This may develop some extra gas but has not been a problem for me so far. I also do some scout work and find a dump station on the way home.

Passed along in the hope it makes clean out a little easier for those who use Eco Safe units and don't have kiddos at home.
 

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Plywood with an oval hole and a couple one by twos will keep it from sliding off the ammo can. small hinges and a second piece make a nice lid.

WE found one of these left behind at what must have been a single use lunch stop on the MFS. We topped it off and packed it out.
 

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"But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it :grin:, than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use."

Which brings to mind a story.
I am a big fan of the Eco Safe system. Not saying it is the best for every one, It just works for me.

Some years ago after a fun trip down the Salt River AZ, first week of April (hot weather that year), we were slow at the take out. Could not find a place in Globe to dump. Just put the rocket box in the trailer and headed back to Tulsa Town. Same deal at home, tired and the rocket box stayed in the trailer longer than it should have. Finally took the groover to a local RV dump and flushed it as per normal. Nothing solid flushed out, looked inside and it was a solid block of poop in the bottom. Took me a long time and very careful use of a hammer and extra long big blade screw driver to get the material out of the eco safe unit. Since then on take out day morning I have put a generous amount of dish washing liquid and some river water into the eco safe and let the normal travel shaking action liquify the poop etc on the way to a dump station. This may develop some extra gas but has not been a problem for me so far. I also do some scout work and find a dump station on the way home.

Passed along in the hope it makes clean out a little easier for those who use Eco Safe units and don't have kiddos at home.
We always spray the inside of the gamma bucket with Pam before the first use. The first user gets that honor. Then on takeout day, we pour enough river water into the bucket to make "poo stew." The action of the river on the last day agitates the contents of the bucket, making it easier to get out at the scat machine or RV dump. I ended up with the bucket after a Deso trip (no scat machines in Utah), and it sat on my trailer for 2 days. Still liquid at the RV dump. Wow....what a wonderful topic :rolleyes:

That soft toilet seat looks comfy. We used to use a seat similar to that, and just unscrew the gamma lid with each use. But we found that in their haste to groove, some folks weren't very careful with the lid, and were just tossing it into the sand. Also the contant screwing and unscrewing for use was stretching the o-ring seal, and it would become so loose that it would fall off. The final thing that pushed us to the seat attached to the gamma lid was a frequent trip member who has a very strong aversion to seeing the poo every time he took the lid off to groove. With the permanent seat, he can groove and shut the lid without all the visualization.

OK.....enough poo talk. :D
 

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Yup, I now do the PAM spray on groover set up as well.

PAM is indeed wonderful stuff. I use it on my DO's inside no matter how seasoned they are, on the grill before grilling what ever and on squeaky oar locks as well.
 

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Yup, I now do the PAM spray on groover set up as well.

PAM is indeed wonderful stuff. I use it on my DO's inside no matter how seasoned they are, on the grill before grilling what ever and on squeaky oar locks as well.
I wonder if the makers of Pam know how valuable their product is for greasing up a river toilet. :lol:
 

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Once I tried one of these, I threw my old toilet seat away. It's comfortable, deep to prevent backsplash, and the top holds both toilet paper and keeps the flies out. This is a must have if you own an eco safe. It would fit just fine on top of a rocket box, and of coarse...it fits inside one for storage.

Eco-Safe Ammobox Square Toilet Seat
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Once I tried one of these, I threw my old toilet seat away. It's comfortable, deep to prevent backsplash, and the top holds both toilet paper and keeps the flies out. This is a must have if you own an eco safe. It would fit just fine on top of a rocket box, and of coarse...it fits inside one for storage.

Eco-Safe Ammobox Square Toilet Seat

Here's the part of the description that concerns me:


......The flange under the seat funnels waste into the tank.....

In my limited experience with the other EcoSafe system, which is still available online, you had to clean the funnel or tray after most uses (or at least you hoped the previous user did!) and had to deal with the scrub brush, somehow trying to keep everything clean.

Will look at it again, but it's a little difficult to do any real testing on the AAA or other showroom floor. :-o
 

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Here's the part of the description that concerns me:


......The flange under the seat funnels waste into the tank.....

In my limited experience with the other EcoSafe system, which is still available online, you had to clean the funnel or tray after most uses (or at least you hoped the previous user did!) and had to deal with the scrub brush, somehow trying to keep everything clean.

Will look at it again, but it's a little difficult to do any real testing on the AAA or other showroom floor. :-o
This was my issue with the Ecosafe system. The ones I've used were always messy. It looks like the square seat, while a more comfy design, still has the small funnel- aka- "poo chute" that the regular design has. My other gripe with them was the heavy rocket box to carry the tank in. But it does pass muster on all rivers, so there is that aspect to consider, and lots of folks like the organization of rocket boxes.
 

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Here's the part of the description that concerns me:


......The flange under the seat funnels waste into the tank.....

In my limited experience with the other EcoSafe system, which is still available online, you had to clean the funnel or tray after most uses (or at least you hoped the previous user did!) and had to deal with the scrub brush, somehow trying to keep everything clean.

Will look at it again, but it's a little difficult to do any real testing on the AAA or other showroom floor. :-o
I see your in C Springs. You can try mine out if you want.
 

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This was my issue with the Ecosafe system. The ones I've used were always messy. It looks like the square seat, while a more comfy design, still has the small funnel- aka- "poo chute" that the regular design has. My other gripe with them was the heavy rocket box to carry the tank in. But it does pass muster on all rivers, so there is that aspect to consider, and lots of folks like the organization of rocket boxes.
You are correct that the bottom of the funnel can be a mess depending on who uses it last and if they are willing to clean up after themselves. I won't use a plastic bucket system because of the danger of the bucket breaking. Accidents do happen and ammo cans can take a beating. You do have to pick a system and go with it. Rocket boxes or not.....shit is heavy. :shock: Drop a plastic bucket of the stuff and you run the chance of a smelly mess.:(

If you can afford it.......go with a Jonny Partner system and be done with it.
 

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You are correct that the bottom of the funnel can be a mess depending on who uses it last and if they are willing to clean up after themselves. I won't use a plastic bucket system because of the danger of the bucket breaking. Accidents do happen and ammo cans can take a beating. You do have to pick a system and go with it. Rocket boxes or not.....shit is heavy. :shock: Drop a plastic bucket of the stuff and you run the chance of a smelly mess.:(

If you can afford it.......go with a Jonny Partner system and be done with it.
Jonny Partners are pretty deluxe, but still heavy and $$$.
Maybe we've been lucky so far, but in 10 years we've never broken a bucket. We've found that the 6 gallon buckets are the optimal height for comfort. I sometimes use the gamma buckets for general storage on the raft, and they make great step stools when loading the trailer. I discovered the Vittles Vault containers at Petsmart, and have used them also. They are smaller, with a smaller gamma seal lid, but they are square shaped, so nice for packing.
 

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seat

I need to fabricate and adapter to use my johnny partner seat on an ecosafe tank. I'll make it out of aluminum. I'd be happy to make you something that will work if you can give me the design and dimensions. cost only for materials (if I need anything I don't have lying around) and shipping from ft Collins. I've made a bunch of stuff with aluminum, check out a past thread "getting ready for the grand"
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I see your in C Springs. You can try mine out if you want.
Dan, Thanks for the kind offer! Should I bring my own reading material?

Joking aside, would be nice to meet. I'm getting a new Hyside 16' and need to some rafting mentors.

- Jon
 

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I need to fabricate and adapter to use my johnny partner seat on an ecosafe tank. I'll make it out of aluminum. I'd be happy to make you something that will work if you can give me the design and dimensions. cost only for materials (if I need anything I don't have lying around) and shipping from ft Collins. I've made a bunch of stuff with aluminum, check out a past thread "getting ready for the grand"
Hey, thanks much for the offer. I'll muddle through with something down here once I figure out where I'm going with this.
 
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