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5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
wanna wait 20 years to get your GC permit? well that's the current wait period. the park service has been working on a new river managment plan to try and fix this.

read the plan yourself, and make a comment! the only way to get a change is for US to comment and force change. don't wait for others, because there's no one to look out for us, like US.

download the plan (its a big file).

there's a group of private boaters trying to force a change in the permits system: Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association. watch their web site for expert opinions on the draft river management plan.

you must comment by 7 January.

389 Posts
How do we easily comment on the plan? What web site do we go to?

What should we say from a private boaters perspective? Make it easy for us.


Spits Hot Fire
978 Posts
Heres a few things you can throw at em, comment on:

-The conflict between Wilderness standards how park concessionaires dont meet those wilderness qualities(motorized use, group size, impact of group size, heli's, noise pollution, etc)

-How the current plan does a poor job of carrying out the National Park Services mission to protect the resource and provide visitor satisfaction(for future generations too).

-How those who have the money and means can basically get on the river tomorrow while someone who wants to take it upon themselves to do so has to wait so long. It caters mostly to the upper income white-folk class, kinda like the ski industry.

-The hugely disproportionate number of permits allowed to private boaters compared to commercials.

Theres lots more, but these are some basics.

oh yeah, heres the GC Private boaters page, tons of good info.

Super Moderator
4,208 Posts
If you're not very familiar with the issues and don't have the time to wade into the 900-page document, there should be detailed analysis of the new DEIS coming soon by the GCPBA. I'd expect that right now they're dissecting it and looking at it from many angles. Its very likely that this will appear on the GCPBA website. The GCPBA represents a significant number of private boaters was one of the leading groups (along with AW) that filed suit and restarted the process a few years ago.

Looking at the alternatives for private permit system, it looks like they have some significant drawbacks.


Sponsoring Vendors
1,485 Posts
after seeing how huge the document was i thought i'd better call ricardo (gcpba pres) and figure out what to read. he said the executive summary and chapter 2 are good places to start. some of the chap 2 material is covered in the summary but obviously with more detail in the chapter. this did seem to give me the overall info on all of the proposed plans. with the big titles it is pretty easy to wade through to what intrests you.

andy, the most significant thing i saw, that is ineveitable, is we do seem to sacrafice number of days in the canyon on all but i think one of the new plans. this sucks. eighteen days is not near enough much less 16 or 14. also it seems inevitable that the mouth of tapeats will no longer be camped, like havasu, lil' c and redwall. glad i did a layover there last trip.

Super Moderator
4,208 Posts
Before going off half cocked, let's get our act together....

We've got until New Year's to get the comments in, there will be a meeting in Denver and the other cities where they had the scoping sessions a couple of years ago, and this plan is only a DRAFT so there's a chance that its subject to change. If the plan can be changed we'll need to have a coherent alternative to what's currently being offered. Currently the Park Service's "Preferred Alternative" would have a set group getting together every year, entering a "weighted lottery" as a rigid group, and hoping for a launch a year later.

I just talked to a guy I know that's plugged into the scene with the Grand Canyon Private Boater's Association (GCPBA). He said that they're hashing out the document and figuring out which, if any, of the alternatives will provide better access to private boaters and will be coming up with a strategy.

Like Liz She Is says, stay tuned to the GCPBA's website for expert opinions. These folks have been living and breathing the Management Plan for the last few years and will have something to say soon. In the meantime start poring over the plan yourself and getting familiar with it.

See you at the public comment meeting,


399 Posts
Who cares bitches, I'm going this June! :D

Does anyone have a boat to recommend? I think my S6 will be too slow to catch all those glassy waves. Something playful but still fast enough to surf.

Super Moderator
4,208 Posts
The following information concerning forthcoming CRMP public meetings was released by the Park Service Oct. 8.

See you there!

Your friends at the GCPBA


WHAT: The National Park Service (NPS) will host a series of public meetings to provide an overview of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), allowing for public comment and a comprehensive review of the document. The EIS will be the foundation for the revision of the 1989 Colorado River Management Plan (CRMP) for Grand Canyon National Park. These meetings will help the public learn about the proposed and preferred alternatives under consideration.

A complete copy of the draft EIS can be downloaded at A CD with the complete document can be ordered online at the same Web site.

WHO: The NPS invites public input as it prepares to finalize the EIS. Anyone interested in providing input and offering ideas about how visitor use will be managed on the Colorado River through Grand Canyon National Park or would like to learn more about the EIS process is encouraged to attend.

WHEN/WHERE: All meetings will be in an open house format, and there will be no formal presentation. The public is invited to stop by at any time from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

Monday, November 8, 2004

Denver, Colorado

Arapahoe Community College


5900 S. Santa Fe Drive, Littleton

Wednesday, November 10, 2004

Salt Lake City, Utah

Salt Lake Community College-Miller Campus

Karen Gail Miller Conference Center

9750 South 300 West, Sandy



Tuesday, November 16, 2004

Washington, D.C. Area

Crystal Gateway Marriott Hotel


1700 Jefferson Davis Highway, Arlington

Thursday, November 18, 2004

Las Vegas, Nevada

Henderson Convention Center

Ballroom and Sierra A & C

200 Water Street, Henderson

Monday, November 22, 2004

Flagstaff, Arizona

Coconino Community College

Administration Building – Commons Area

2800 S. Lone Tree Rd.

Tuesday, November 30, 2004

Phoenix, Arizona

Glendale Community College

Student Lounge

6000 W. Olive Avenue, Glendale

Thursday, December 2, 2004

San Francisco, California

The Presidio of San Francisco

Presidio Officers’ Club

50 Moraga Avenue, San Francisco

WHY: Today’s publication of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Notice of Availability in the Federal Register initiates a 90-day public review and comment period. Comments on the draft EIS will be accepted through January 7, 2005.

PUBLIC CONTACT: For more information, visit the Park’s Web site at

For GCBPA, Nancy Seamons
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