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Hey Guys,

I've tried searching but can't seem to find anything relevant....

I'm going on a 21 day Grand Canyon trip in April / May and had heard that there may be some climbing to be had from some of the camps on the way down.

Does anyone have any more info. as to where and what gear to bring? There are about 4 climbers in the group, probably climbing between 5.6 and 5.11. We have 5 rafts and 7 kayaks on our trip, but I don't want to burden the rafts with too much gear, especially if it won't be needed.

I was thinking of keeping it to a minimum and taking rope, harness, chalkbag, shoes and a set of nuts and just doing some toproping, but if it's worth it I could toss in some friends and a bit more gear for leading....

Any info. would be much appreciated.

Cheers
 

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There is a ton of climbing potential in the canyon. I know some of the temples have routes up them. I'm sure you could find something to climb at just about any camp as well. I would go with a FA mindset, triple set of cams to #3 BD Camalot, small set of wires, a hand drill, some bolts/ hangers and some cord for anchors.

Good luck, here's a bit of info on MP.
Mountain Project: Climbing Northern Arizona > Grand Canyon National Park
 

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River Gypsy
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...a hand drill, some bolts/ hangers and some cord for anchors.
Are you really suggesting drilling bolts in the GC?? I personally think that is totally unacceptable. The canyon is hammered enough by people already without having holes drilled in it. What's more, most of the rock is so soft that I would be wary of taking anything more than a toprope fall on a bolt down there anyway.

I suggest just taking shoes and bouldering around a bit.
 

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Are you really suggesting drilling bolts in the GC?? I personally think that is totally unacceptable. The canyon is hammered enough by people already without having holes drilled in it. What's more, most of the rock is so soft that I would be wary of taking anything more than a toprope fall on a bolt down there anyway.

I suggest just taking shoes and bouldering around a bit.

Yes, Leland. With no dis respect, I have suggested putting in some bolt anchors for those guys if they do attempt any new routing. Which there are plenty of new routes to be climbed in the GC. Of all grades. I take it that you haven't done much climbing in the past. But typically unless there is a walk off decent you will probably need to rappell down at some point. Bolt anchors are strong in ALL types of rock, as long as the installer is using the right gear for the type of rock being climbed. In my opinion most of the rock quality in the GC is pretty good. There are some formations that probably would not react to climbing so well. ie: the Tapeats Sandstone formation. But the limestones, granite, and more durable sandstone formations are very good for climbing. Also, most of these anchors you wouldnt even see unless you are looking for them or knew their exact placment. So I doubt this is going to ruin your experience. I'm sure there is few sets of anchors in the canyon already. Didn't see them on my trip down. The only bolt anchors I vaguely remember from my trip down were for rafts to be tied to at Havasu, I could be mistaken though as it didn't concern me much and we were not rafting so didn't need them.

Although, I have only been down the GC once I did not see that the GC was getting hammered by people let alone being ruined by a couple bolt anchors to get off of a climbing route. I was surprised by the lack of trash, including micro trash for the entire length of the trip. Which I thought was awesome! Considering the thousands of people that go down each year. That could be the time of year we were in there or most people are just responsible and clean up after themselves.

I feel that climbing in the GC would be a great time. I would do it responsibly, use bolts or anchors only where needed, use natural or clean protection as much as possible. Try to excersise the walk off decent if its there.
 

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Bolts Illegal

Bolts are illegal within the GCNP. Basejumping is also illegal within the GCNP as found out by McNamara on the TOmmy Caldwell trip. He was banned from the Park for 5 years and given a hefty fine. If the Park was lucky enough to catch you in the act, the TL and trip might get a free helicopter ride out.

Probably shouldn't be climbing overhead if you can't build a traditional anchor. The Canyoneers have become quite proficient in traditional anchors. One technique they use is drystacking a pile of rocks with webbing around it:0 Pretty hard to do for the first time if you've been rapping off of bolts.

If you can con your trip into camping at Badger, there's some multi pitch cracks that go way high. Bring OW pro. Every once in awhile you will hit a solo bat that will send the tinglers up your back hairs:)

I've found, unless your trip is all about climbing, you will have a hard time encouraging the group to wait for someone climbing except bouldering at stops or in camp.

Checkout Grand Canyoneering by Todd Martin, best guidebook I've seen!

Brady
 

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Bolts are illegal within the GCNP. Basejumping is also illegal within the GCNP as found out by McNamara on the TOmmy Caldwell trip.
Where have you read that bolts are illegal in Grand Canyon National Park? I have checked the NPS website and I didn't see where it stated that or had any information for climbing. Secondly, there are sport climbs within the parks boundaries published on the link I posted above. So I doubt there is a bolting ban within the park, if there was it would most likely be noted on their website as well. If there is I will stand corrected. With that said, most National Parks DO NOT allow motorized drills. That is why I recommended bringing a hand drill. Because they do allow bolts to be placed by hand.

BASE jumping however, is illegal in the park. That why he was banned for five years. Not for placing bolts.

With the rack I described above and the OPs group climbing in good style. They will have fun or maybe they will be enjoying the river so much that they won't have time to climb. But, the gear is on the raft.
 

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Look at you Nemi.. Promoting a guy who owes you 15 bucks.. It´s good to see you got over it.

I figure if I keep promoting him he can pay me the 15 bucks....... I was his agent for the talks to get him on the Citibank commercial. Alex agreed to do it for 37.00 and new tires for his van and free low alcohol beer in Moab.

And I agree..... unless your group is all about climbing it will be hard to get a lot of climbing in on a Raft trip without a motor....... but not impossible, and there is a shit ton of sick walls down in there.
 

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The beach at tuckup canyon has a nice wall, i have done some bouldering there but you could top rope it and make some nice routes.
 

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Hi,

Google isn't my helpful friend on this, but I have a hard time believing that the Park would allow any drilling for bolts. Being as virtually the entire Park outside the river corridor is a wilderness area, it seems highly unlikely any permanent modifications of that type would be OK.

Yes, there are some fixed hardware items at river level in a couple of places. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Park hasn't removed them. They seemed to be awfully concerned about Shorty Burton's memorial pie tin being nailed into a rock below Upset.

FWIW, and I could be wrong.

Rich Phillips
 

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As I understand that the recent GC flood flows failed to distribute the desired amount of sand to the desired spots of beach etc. I'd say drill baby drill and you ought to get the NPS to pay for your trip because you will be contributing to the sand distribution. Or, as Ed would have said, "don't wory about damage from a few bolts when there are 2 damn dams completely ruining the whole river".
 

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I take it that you haven't done much climbing in the past.
Actually, I climbed 100+ days/year for about 5 years, drove around the country living in my car and climbing every day for months on end several times, taught rock climbing all summer for 7 summers, etc.

And I definitely do not believe that bolts should be drilled in GCNP, especially in the river corridor where lots of people go, especially so that people can climb a route once and then leave their trash in the rock. Either figure out how to protect it with trad gear, nut up and run it out, or climb somewhere else.
 

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Hi,

Google isn't my helpful friend on this, but I have a hard time believing that the Park would allow any drilling for bolts. Being as virtually the entire Park outside the river corridor is a wilderness area, it seems highly unlikely any permanent modifications of that type would be OK.

Yes, there are some fixed hardware items at river level in a couple of places. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Park hasn't removed them. They seemed to be awfully concerned about Shorty Burton's memorial pie tin being nailed into a rock below Upset.

FWIW, and I could be wrong.

Rich Phillips
I don't think the NPS has a law of the land that oversees all parks as far as drilling goes. Most parks have a ban on power drills but hand drilling is ok, some have a permit/approval by route system and others have a moratorium unless it is to replace failing bolts. I have drilled up my share of routes, but I would not waste the time or the money to bolt up a face that so few people will ever climb.

I considered bringing climbing gear on my last trip and decided against it. I felt I would be hauling a ton of gear down the river so I could climb maybe once or twice if it happened to work out. I did bring my climbing shoes so I could boulder and left the chalk at home. I bouldered a little, but played it super conservative since that last thing I wanted to do was roll and ankle. The only time I wanted to climb was on the hike at Fern Glen when I got cliffed out. There looked like a great 5.7 crack that would have kept me going a bit further.

If you really want to do some technical climbs than go for it. I think you will find plenty of routes were you don't need to hang fixed gear. If you don't bring your gear, you won't miss it much. There is so much hiking, bouldering and exploring to do without gear, you'll have a blast.
 

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Wow, a bolting debate on the Buzz. I'm not talking about putting up a sport climb or even a supplementary bolt. The anchors I was talking about was for rapping the route if there is not a walk off or natural anchor available. Hence, First Accent mindset. Not always do you need to put in fixed gear. But sometimes it is required. I suppose one could leave a couple hundred dollars worth of cams behind, possibly might be able to fix a wire, or down aid the pitch if thats possible to retrive gear. Not sure about you but I am not willing to stack some rocks on top and rap a 100 foot pitch as suggested by another poster. Those tactics are not very realistic when repelling of most climbing routes.

I'm not looking to high jack the OPs thread nor get into a bolting debate. He asked what gear to bring and I listed what I would bring with me. The fact is when using a hand drill you can place bolts to your little hearts content within the GCNP and the river corridor. There are no bans in place other than you can not use a motorized drill. The rules are the same for most National Parks as well as Wilderness Areas. Luckily, the mindset of most climbers these days is to use bolts sparingly, while bolting on lead. If people established some decent routes I'm sure if they were documented they would get climbed again.

OP, After reading Tommy Caldwells TR I would say don't take any climbing gear, the routes and rock in the GC suck.
 

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If I recall

I believe John Middendorf established a whole bunch of routes in the GCNP. Probably alot of dicey hard aid stuff.

Anyhow, you might google his GC efforts. There might be some beta / insights on Canyon Climbing.


IMHO, though, unless you are willing to committ a whole lot of time to scoping, exploring, FA'ing a route or two, it is not worth it to half-ass it gear wise, and time wise. In my recollection, the rock that looked really worthy also looked like a lot of effort.

Good luck.
 

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Grand Canyoneering

Grand Canyoneering | Dan Ransom Photography

Recently Canyoneers have been on the forefront of anchor ethics and exploration in the Grand Canyon. With boldness, and intelligence they are etching out the immediate future of Grand Canyon Exploration for descenders AND ascenders. Nothing they are doing cannot be reproduced on a ground up ethic. In fact, the climbing forefathers started this traditional movement years ago but....

The future is the next generation. Hopefully climbers that step forward will do so with boldness and open mind,

Brady
 

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Grand Canyoneering | Dan Ransom Photography

Recently Canyoneers have been on the forefront of anchor ethics and exploration in the Grand Canyon. With boldness, and intelligence they are etching out the immediate future of Grand Canyon Exploration for descenders AND ascenders. Nothing they are doing cannot be reproduced on a ground up ethic. In fact, the climbing forefathers started this traditional movement years ago but....

The future is the next generation. Hopefully climbers that step forward will do so with boldness and open mind,

Brady
Brady, Did you miss the part around 3:09 in the video where they were fixing a sling for an anchor? How is that the forefront of anchor ethics?
 
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