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Discussion Starter #1
I am planning on using some of these for dry storage on my Grand Canyon trip.

The Vittles Vault Outback 50 Air Tight Pet Food Containers by Gamma2

I am so done with heavy, and now expensive, rocket boxes, and am looking for an alternative for dry storage. I am thinking things like toilet paper, GORP, charcoal and other dry goods would be quite happy in these dry containers and be easy to store and lightweight. I have a bunch of "dry" boxes I use, but know from experience, the gaskets always leak, so for important things, you need to ziplock everything to ensure for flips.

We are working on seeing if they would be suitable to the NPS for human waste as they are 0.1055" thick high density polyethylene plastic. I believe it is similar to the coyote design groover. Here is the Coyote system link, http://www.amazon.com/Coyote-River-Gear-Portable-Toilet/dp/B00030NLQC

I am not sure on the thickness on the Coyote system and wondering if anyone has used the Coyote system II groovers and has some input on them??

I have had great success with West System G flex epoxy for polyethylene repairs on coolers, kayaks and such and can make nice handles with either nylon webbing with some schedule 40 PVC or just use up some of my old hypalon D rings for bomber tie downs.

So what do you think?..... Dry storage for sure with the possibility of a cheaper, lighter DIY groover???
 

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A lot of rivers won't accept the Vittle Vaults / Gamma buckets unless you're using a wag bag system (and some won't allow those either).

The Coyote system is accepted on any permitted trip in the US. I like it a lot better than the EcoSafe as its bigger, more stable, larger opening and doesn't have the "junk tray" in the front of the seat that gets gross. Throw it in a large dedicated dry bag and you've got as much odor protection as the Eco.
 

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I am planning on using some of these for dry storage on my Grand Canyon trip.

The Vittles Vault Outback 50 Air Tight Pet Food Containers by Gamma2

I am so done with heavy, and now expensive, rocket boxes, and am looking for an alternative for dry storage. I am thinking things like toilet paper, GORP, charcoal and other dry goods would be quite happy in these dry containers and be easy to store and lightweight. I have a bunch of "dry" boxes I use, but know from experience, the gaskets always leak, so for important things, you need to ziplock everything to ensure for flips.

We are working on seeing if they would be suitable to the NPS for human waste as they are 0.1055" thick high density polyethylene plastic. I believe it is similar to the coyote design groover. Here is the Coyote system link, Amazon.com : Portable Camp Toilet System : Camping Sanitation Supplies : Sports & Outdoors

I am not sure on the thickness on the Coyote system and wondering if anyone has used the Coyote system II groovers and has some input on them??

I have had great success with West System G flex epoxy for polyethylene repairs on coolers, kayaks and such and can make nice handles with either nylon webbing with some schedule 40 PVC or just use up some of my old hypalon D rings for bomber tie downs.

So what do you think?..... Dry storage for sure with the possibility of a cheaper, lighter DIY groover???
Hard to say on the groover acceptance, they state two things

The main river trip toilet system and system used at camps must be the washable, reusable type allowing for the sanitary transfer of waste materials to septic vaults or sewage treatment facilities
AND

Washable reusable toilet system designed to contain and store human waste, i.e., welded plastic storage boxes, aluminum boxes, etc.
I think your system satisfies the second quote/requirement as long as the system is "welded" in some fashion. The only issue I would see with the first is the issue of "sanitary transfer of waste materials". They have a lot of control but if they allow groovers to satisfy the requirement than I would wager they would allow a vittle vault as long as its a durable construction.

On the personal level....I would just buy a groover rather than deal with the nasty element of cleanup with a system like a vittle vault that has no water attachment and exit spout. The coyote system is bad enough with its built in corners and crevices but at least you can get some pressurized water into and out of the thing.

We have used the gamma seal lids for many trips and be prepared for the fact that they seem to leak. It could just be the bucket system that we use as it may different than the vault. Definitely line the vaults until you guarantee they are dry. This was a noticeable problem in the Grand and most of our buckets had some water and vapor in them each day from the powerful hits (was in an 18 foot bucket boat). We still use them but double bag everything.

Best of luck.

Phillip
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the feed back....

I wonder why the vittle vaults are not passing the inspections, they are not welded, but formed in a mold, but I do not think that is a requirement to be welded the way it is stated in the regs. We actually have a dedicated lid which has the RV clean out and 3/4 hose input so cleaning would be fine.

I like the stable shape as opposed to the eco safe rocket box system I own already and lines the heavy rocket box and always is tippy. For packing, the square shape and the round corners is a big plus for the Vittles. I am guessing the leaking is probably from the gamma lids designed to fit on 5 gallon buckets or problems with the gaskets?? I was planning to 303 the tops and gaskets. I will definitely garbage bag any food or TP I put into them and check them for condensation and pretest them in my hot tub.

Sure would like to find a better DIY system as the Coyotes are $190. I do not like the clean out drain in that they already had to raise the clean out because it can leak and there are no good tie downs. Thanks for the help. I will let you know if we can convince the park to let us use the Vittle Vaults and if not I am going to find out why they do not pass the regulations.
 

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I have Vittle vaults for all kinds of purposes and love them. They should not leak like the Gama lids on buckets, which do some times (not at the lid but at the point where it snaps on the bucket). They do not work well for groovers because they are not a shatter proof material, so a little risky for spills, but they work in scat machines just fine. The weight savings is huge and they are easy and fast to get in and out of. Do not over tighten the lids it will stretch the O-rings. Carried trail mix for 18 days through the GC, no leaks, same was true for TP, charcoal and other dry goods carried in other ones. The rounded corners makes them easy to clean.
 

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Hi,

I've used the Vittles Vault on a number of trips, and they work well, as long as you are careful to retain the thin white gasket in an intact condition. (I carry a few extra in my spares box.)

I've tried the Gamma lids also. As noted, they tend to leak at the joint where the lid itself meets the bucket bottom. I sealed that joint on mine with silicone caulk, which solved the problem. But I preferred the vaults because of their square cross-section, and somewhat thicker, apparently more durable material.

Many years ago, I brought some Vittles Vaults to the Grand with charcoal and TP in them, and talked to Ranger Dave about possible groover use. He said he would not approve them for human waste storage because they were plastic, and subject to breakage, particularly if they had been used extensively and might be embrittled by UV exposure.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
 

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I think the vittles boxes are a great idea. Just not the plastic strength or lid sealing that works for me on river trips. I used one vittles box for charcoal storage on one trip, but got splash leaks thru the top.

Did not know about the spare white gaskets IE where to buy them. Maybe double gaskets would help with the leakage problem I have with the vittles boxes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Shatter??

Ok, did not think they could shatter. Maybe just for gorp, charcoal, trash and TP. Maybe apples, peppers, cabbage, carrots, potatoes and things in the drop bag to keep the norwalk virus water from the produce, but keep it cool.
 

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Sorry, to rain on your parade, but we have two of the vittle vaults and they do not hold up on river trips. They crack around the top of the "body" in such a manner outside of the o-ring. The body is too thin. I grant you, they are handy. I had special hold down straps sewn for them and the ease of opening them single handed is great, but if they leak, what good are they.

Continue your search elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thx for the warning...

Guess I'll have to wrap em w duct tape, color coded for ease of id, lol. :rolleyes:

Sorry, to rain on your parade, but we have two of the vittle vaults and they do not hold up on river trips. They crack around the top of the "body" in such a manner outside of the o-ring. The body is too thin. I grant you, they are handy. I had special hold down straps sewn for them and the ease of opening them single handed is great, but if they leak, what good are they.

Continue your search elsewhere.
 

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Well, they both cracked in the same place. They might not leak if you caulked them with the really sticky urethane gutter caulk around the inside of the body at the top. That way, if/when they crack, water won't get in.

I tried sealing the crack on the river with Aquaseal from the outside and it didn't work. If they were just a little thicker, OK, maybe much thicker, they would be awesome for river use.

Hmmm, urethane gutter caulk might work on the Gamma seal lids on 5 gal buckets. That stuff is pretty damn good for gutters.
 

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thanks richp, as I have noted many time, the Buzz is a great source of information

Based on my experience with these vittles containers on rivers, I will continue to use them for things like charcoal etc but not for things that need to be protected big time. Like TMACC posted, continue the search.

For me the eco safe units are pretty much bomber plastic plus being in a rocket box that gives the engineer in me a double safety factor. I just got off a san juan float and even now it is hot and sunny out west. The thought of a vittles box full of poop building up explosive gases on my little mini cat pretty much scares me big time.

My advice is to save your pennies and buy a real poop container from a top notch supplier. The reason these vittles boxes are so cheap to buy is because they are made of thin molded plastic designed to keep dog food in a covered building not poop on a super hot sunny day outside anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I appreciate all the advice. We will stick with the heavy eco safe units for our groovers. I may wrap the vittle vaults with some fiberglass tape and G flex epoxy to beef up the "neck" as it sounds like that might be the weakest part, maybe the lower corners as well and experiment with them for some dry goods??
 

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okieboater,


I will bring you a couple of new seals, just let me know what size for your June 1st trip.


Scott
 
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