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I don't like Facebook as a platform for real discussion. I don't like Mountain Buzz either, but the forum format is just a little better than Facebook, so I decided to start this discussion here.

I don't want to make this personal for anyone, so I will avoid names of individuals or their respective groups.

So, it seems that facebook has now become the hub for river related discussions, issues, and classified listings. It disturbs me that it seems like nearly all facebook groups related to western river running are controlled by a small group of administrators with one outspoken person seemingly in control of the vast majority of river related discussion on facebook.

I have a high degree of respect for the level of activism and commitment that this person has dedicated to river running and river history in the Western US. With that being said, I have also noticed that when others start river related facebook pages of their own (or even publish books) that do not involve this person, he/she often tries to discredit the offending person in what seems like an attempt to control some sort of authority pertaining to all things river related.

So, this is a call to any river running folk who value open discussions to be careful how much influence we allow one person or organization to accrue on social media platforms. Back in the heyday of "the Buzz" this forum was often dominated by BS and bravado, but mixed in there were a few good discussions, that is why I still check in here once in a while. I also recall a few people caliming that they were being unfairly censored by moderators, but for the most part I never saw one person starting discussions and then regulating posts with their admin privileges like I see on facebook.

I would also note that I have seen this kind of thing happen on facebook groups pertaining to non rafting issues as well, where one person can start a group with a good name and quickly wield a lot of power over that particular interest group through their administrator role, often kicking out others who disagree with the group admin. Any thoughts...Any alternatives?
 

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no tengo
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Not long after covid I deleted my facebook account completely. The company is super shady for one but between coronavirus, religion and politics it just got to the point of toxic wasteland status. Do I miss knowing about openings on trips, selling some stuff, and sharing pictures with Aunt Maggie? yes, but my mental state is far better now.

I know of at least one alternative is groups.io I think the Idahowhitewater is trying to move to that from yahoo. Other modern discussion platforms might be Slack or Discord. You can also start or join a Reddit. Stay far away from facebook it will improve your life.
 

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Yeah, it’s a shame Facesuckage has gone down it’s chosen road and done a fine job of killing off most forum sites in the process.

I deleted my account after 2 weeks back in 2009 after realizing talking to people from 25 years ago was actually pretty boring and the site itself was a total shitshow. So not much help on FB whitewater group drama.

Mountainbuzz is certainly a dumpster fire, as well. It has been for a long, long time. There’s so little life left here and with the Facebook drawdown/ distractions, I doubt a new website would get traction these days. I’d love to be wrong though. An enthusiasm for river running is the only thing that keeps me reading and posting here. There’s zero enthusiasm for the actual MB site, it’s ownership or it’s moderators.
 

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I bailed from facebook several years ago. The negatives far outweigh the benefits. Instafacechattok will be the demise of our civilized society (whatever civilized remains).

Stop staring at the sun and just talk to your friends. I never invited anyone on a trip via facebook, I don't expect I've missed any invites either.
 

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I have crused facebook about 6 or 8 times, it just was not my cup of tea. Mountain Buzz to me is alot more balanced. I too have a great, straight forward love of river running and reading the stories of the new and old boatmen that share their experiences and journey's
here.
 

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Whoa. This certainly speaks to me. I just deleted my account of 12+ years. Over 1000 “friends”. I certainly love my friends and family, but the FB scene is dismal and a net negative at best. I found myself spending way to much time there bemoaning the state of the world. The world outside the door doesn’t match the one portrayed in the media/social media.

Since I deleted it about a month ago, I’ve never been closer to my friends, family and river buddies. We text/chat like the good ole days. As for advocating, it seems best done between folks who have something in common. FB had way to much noise above the message.

Life is better pointed downstream.
 

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HA! this resonates with (at?) me...(see my FB rant from last Sunday). I cut my "internet forum teeth" here on the Buzz where the snark is/was turned up to 11, an I'm having difficulty transitioning to other pages like "Utah Rafters"... many mea culpas...

I don't like Facebook as a platform for real discussion. I don't like Mountain Buzz either, but the forum format is just a little better than Facebook, so I decided to start this discussion here.

I don't want to make this personal for anyone, so I will avoid names of individuals or their respective groups.

So, it seems that facebook has now become the hub for river related discussions, issues, and classified listings. It disturbs me that it seems like nearly all facebook groups related to western river running are controlled by a small group of administrators with one outspoken person seemingly in control of the vast majority of river related discussion on facebook.

I have a high degree of respect for the level of activism and commitment that this person has dedicated to river running and river history in the Western US. With that being said, I have also noticed that when others start river related facebook pages of their own (or even publish books) that do not involve this person, he/she often tries to discredit the offending person in what seems like an attempt to control some sort of authority pertaining to all things river related.

So, this is a call to any river running folk who value open discussions to be careful how much influence we allow one person or organization to accrue on social media platforms. Back in the heyday of "the Buzz" this forum was often dominated by BS and bravado, but mixed in there were a few good discussions, that is why I still check in here once in a while. I also recall a few people caliming that they were being unfairly censored by moderators, but for the most part I never saw one person starting discussions and then regulating posts with their admin privileges like I see on facebook.

I would also note that I have seen this kind of thing happen on facebook groups pertaining to non rafting issues as well, where one person can start a group with a good name and quickly wield a lot of power over that particular interest group through their administrator role, often kicking out others who disagree with the group admin. Any thoughts...Any alternatives?
 

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There’s zero enthusiasm for the actual MB site, it’s ownership or it’s moderators.
Many forums go that way when the original owners sell them off. When it's your forum, you coddle and nurture it, and throw down a lot of great information to keep people coming back.

Unfortunately, most FB groups are someones' bully pulpit and not a passion project.

I still have FB so I can creep my old girlfriends ...
No shit?! I too still have FB so I can creep your old girlfriends!!


HA! this resonates with (at?) me...(see my FB rant from last Sunday). I cut my "internet forum teeth" here on the Buzz where the snark is/was turned up to 11, an I'm having difficulty transitioning to other pages like "Utah Rafters"... many mea culpas...
Shit, snark here was never more than a solid 9.
I cut my internet forum teeth on Pirate4x4.com (which has also jumped the shark). It made me think a LOT faster with my quips..and yet when I dialed it back, did ultimately become a lot more diplomatic.
 
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