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I want to go kayaking goddammit, and those [EDIT - expletive deleted due to member complaints, but feel free to guess what they were being called] in charge of water theft are taking 400-500 cfs through the moffat tunnel right now. Meanwhile, the local rivers have practically no water. I feel like killing something and/or blowing something up! JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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I stop in every 5 years or so just to see what's up and to tis point I was disappointed to see that we had not had the annual piss on the front Range post usually by a somewhat new commer. Thanks for keeping my faith alive. I however would choose my words somewhat more carefully . I live right below a diversion tunnel that dewaters the river in my back yard when out walking I occasionally see a Colorado Springs Water Board truck. I usually flip them off or give them the double handed Jersey salute depending on wether I have a beverage in my hand or not. forms of 1st Amendment expression that garner less attention yours perhaps. All the best sj
 

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Come kayak the tunnel discharge on the east side

We have your water here on the east side. Drive over and run Alto-Alto near Rollinsville (IV) and GREAT at these levels, or below Pinecliff (V and V+)
 

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HELL YA foreverhard you nailed it they need there green grass lets tell more people to move to the front range and will have no water
 

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Foreverhard I don't know how to thank you for your wise words to the waterboard. Oh yes I do...a shot of whiskey. At least you got first d of East I. That should keep a smile on for the dry times. Fucking cocksuckers they make you feel like you have tourette's when talking about them.
 

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I'm no fan of diversions, but I went to a Colorado River Water Conservation meeting in 2008 and was surprised to learn that only about 15% of trans-divide diversions from the basin are used in front range households, with roughly half being used outside and the rest inside. So of that 500 cfs, only about 40 cfs statistically goes to water lawns on the front range. Another 40 cfs flushes toilets and runs showers. The rest is agriculture. If you want to point a more meaningful finger, it should probably be at the livestock industry, which uses far more water to produce a pound of food than other agriculture.
 

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I think there is a bigger problem or problems at hand. You should be bitching at all the people on the planet that have started to increase the natural warming of the earth which is causing less snow here in Colorado. For those of you that don't believe in global warming, then it is your god doing his/her work. How come I never hear about anyone complaining to god/s about the lack of water? Don't they hear your prayers at night? I hear that monotheistic one can totally make it flood if he wants. Back to lots of people you could complain about those people that have unprotected sex and make lots of babies and those babies need drinking water. More sex equals more babies equals less water to kayak on. Put condoms in the schools, vasectomies for all!!!!
I can put a political twist on anything, vote for me in the 2014 elections.

Drink a beer or 10 and quit bitching:p, you have safe clean drinking water and relatively cheap food as the result of our water systems. Talking about getting fucked is when your water is infested with malaria or guinea worm larve Dracunculiasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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I feel your pain ForeverFuct. I mean, here we are, supposedly on the awesome receiving end of these diversions, and my local, once-mighty, South Platte river is still dewatered. Good thing they turned some of it into beer to help drown our sorrows. I'm going to water my lawn now in hopes that Union Chutes will come in.
 

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GoBro
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I'm no fan of diversions, but I went to a Colorado River Water Conservation meeting in 2008 and was surprised to learn that only about 15% of trans-divide diversions from the basin are used in front range households, with roughly half being used outside and the rest inside. So of that 500 cfs, only about 40 cfs statistically goes to water lawns on the front range. Another 40 cfs flushes toilets and runs showers. The rest is agriculture. If you want to point a more meaningful finger, it should probably be at the livestock industry, which uses far more water to produce a pound of food than other agriculture.
It's been a while since I was really up on the numbers but I seem to remember a massive amount of water was lost due to cheap plumbing. Basically evaporative loss in in many diversions, poor irrigation canals which seeps water into the ground during transport. Storage is another issue, but harder to engineer a workable fix.

It's ludicrous to me that all the eastern seaboard states I've lived in which get MUCH more water every year put water restrictions (watering lawn, washing cars) on residential users during dry periods, even those operating from a well, but western cities semi-arid or full on deserts wouldn't dream of it. There's more money to be made diverting water than there is conserving it.
 

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The real solution is to make Colorado such an unpleasant place to live that people stop moving here: High taxes, draconian regulations, re-outlaw pot and dumb down beer to 3.2. I suppose we could spend even less on schools, but that would be hard to do.
 

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I'm no fan of diversions, but I went to a Colorado River Water Conservation meeting in 2008 and was surprised to learn that only about 15% of trans-divide diversions from the basin are used in front range households, with roughly half being used outside and the rest inside. So of that 500 cfs, only about 40 cfs statistically goes to water lawns on the front range. Another 40 cfs flushes toilets and runs showers. The rest is agriculture. If you want to point a more meaningful finger, it should probably be at the livestock industry, which uses far more water to produce a pound of food than other agriculture.


WTF?? Are you some kinda fukin vegimitarian or something??? THAT water is CLEARLY being put to good use... creating more STEAKS!!! (I don't really eat steak, but it's just more fun to bitch about the citiots like cutch watering their lawns :D)


foreverhard, being that I'm a hardly boating pussy, I thank you for posting a thread I could comment on... I appreciate that.
 

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Rio Grande

I understand completely.

I drove from ABQ to BV to raft the Ark last weekend because the Rio Grande has barely enough water to float a raft. I drove through the Alamosa Valley to get there, and crossed the Canejos and Rio Grande up there, each flowing huge from the runoff, at least 2-3K CFS going into that valley, but only 100CFS coming out - the gauge is almost flatline. There is no reservoir or diversion, all that water is being sprayed into the air above alalfa fields. It was over 80 degrees when I drove through and 20+ MPH winds and the mist from the irrigation sprinklers was disappearing long before it hit the ground.

The river is dry in 15 places before it reaches Texas, our wells are running dry and we are severely limiting water usage here in NM due to the extreme drought. To see the Rio Grande sprayed in the air and used to flood miles of sagebrush fields so all but the obligatory 100CFS is evaporated just plain hurt.

I have to not think about it, because it makes me angry and sad. How can we as humans be so collectively stupid as to continue this behavior during the worst drought on record in NM?
 

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Free and Easy
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And steaks matter!

Steaks are definitely a good use of water.

That's why I had to leave Grand County behind, and move to Montana where we don't have water diversions to grow yummy cows. Cows are everywhere, and so is decent boating.

If you and Abbey are ever up near Missoula, look me up.

-Paul

WTF?? Are you some kinda fukin vegimitarian or something??? THAT water is CLEARLY being put to good use... creating more STEAKS!!! (I don't really eat steak, but it's just more fun to bitch about the citiots like cutch watering their lawns :D)


foreverhard, being that I'm a hardly boating pussy, I thank you for posting a thread I could comment on... I appreciate that.
 

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I understand completely.

I drove from ABQ to BV to raft the Ark last weekend because the Rio Grande has barely enough water to float a raft. I drove through the Alamosa Valley to get there, and crossed the Canejos and Rio Grande up there, each flowing huge from the runoff, at least 2-3K CFS going into that valley, but only 100CFS coming out - the gauge is almost flatline. There is no reservoir or diversion, all that water is being sprayed into the air above alalfa fields. It was over 80 degrees when I drove through and 20+ MPH winds and the mist from the irrigation sprinklers was disappearing long before it hit the ground.

The river is dry in 15 places before it reaches Texas, our wells are running dry and we are severely limiting water usage here in NM due to the extreme drought. To see the Rio Grande sprayed in the air and used to flood miles of sagebrush fields so all but the obligatory 100CFS is evaporated just plain hurt.

I have to not think about it, because it makes me angry and sad. How can we as humans be so collectively stupid as to continue this behavior during the worst drought on record in NM?
It really is ridiculous. Currently the Rio Grande is running 2050 cfs near Del Norte, but only 58 cfs at the Lobatos bridge near the state line...

Here is some interesting information regarding SL Valley irrigation:

"The total annual water supply to the San Luis Valley averages about 2,500,000 acre-feet. About 1,500,000 acrefeet is streamflow derived chiefly from snowmelt in the surrounding mountains and 1,000,000 acre-feet is from precipitation on the valley floor. Discharge of water from the valley averages about 2,000,000 acre-feet per year by evapotranspiration and about 500,000 acre-feet per year as stream flow and ground-water underflow across the state line. The annual streamflow at the state line averages 445,000 acre-feet and ground-water underflow accounts for the remainder, currently estimated at 55,000 acre-feet. About one-half of the evapotranspiration is nonbeneficial; that is, it does not contribute to the growth of plants having economic value. Much of the nonbeneficial consumption is by phreatophytes, mostly greasewood (Sarcobatus), rabbitbrush (Chrysothamnus), and saltgrass (Distichlis), in areas where the depth to water is less than 12 feet.

Crop productions are good in part of the area, but generally it results in high nonbeneficial water usage. Furthermore, the soils in the waterlogged areas have become alkaline, and the ground water has become highly mineralized because of evaporative concentration of salts."

http://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/22/22_p0129_p0132.pdf
 

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Steaks are definitely a good use of water.

That's why I had to leave Grand County behind, and move to Montana where we don't have water diversions to grow yummy cows. Cows are everywhere, and so is decent boating.

If you and Abbey are ever up near Missoula, look me up.

-Paul
Ironically we could raise better steaks without irrigation and alfalfa/corn crops, I wish more people paid attention to those with innovative and positive ideas, check it out!

http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html
 

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It really is ridiculous. Currently the Rio Grande is running 2050 cfs near Del Norte, but only 58 cfs at the Lobatos bridge near the state line...

Here is some interesting information regarding SL Valley irrigation:

"The total annual water supply to the San Luis Valley averages about 2,500,000 acre-feet. About 1,500,000 acrefeet is streamflow derived chiefly from snowmelt in the surrounding mountains and 1,000,000 acre-feet is from precipitation on the valley floor. Discharge of water from the valley averages about 2,000,000 acre-feet per year by evapotranspiration and about 500,000 acre-feet per year as stream flow and ground-water underflow across the state line. The annual streamflow at the state line averages 445,000 acre-feet and ground-water underflow accounts for the remainder, currently estimated at 55,000 acre-feet. About one-half of the evapotranspiration is nonbeneficial; that is, it does not contribute to the growth of plants having economic value. Much of the nonbeneficial consumption is by phreatophytes, mostly greasewood (Sarcobatus), rabbitbrush (Chrysothamnus), and saltgrass (Distichlis), in areas where the depth to water is less than 12 feet.

Crop productions are good in part of the area, but generally it results in high nonbeneficial water usage. Furthermore, the soils in the waterlogged areas have become alkaline, and the ground water has become highly mineralized because of evaporative concentration of salts."

http://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/22/22_p0129_p0132.pdf
Thanks for the link, that study confirms everything I witnessed, but what is most disturbing is that it dates to ~1970 so this has continued for well over 40 years. The evaporation is destroying their farmland, half or more is not even growing crops, yet it continues...
 

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The entity you are all pissed off at is called the Denver Water Board. They have a collection ditch that gathers all the runoff from Meadowcreek reservoir to Winter Park ski area. They steal your water because someone years ago voted away the water rights (probably when WP was Denver's Winter Park). Also there is no water in the Byers canyon because it is all pumped from Windy Gap up to Lake Granby and then over to Denver.
I know it doesn't help but it might help to clarify.
 
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