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Here's a map produced by the Godless, Eastern Liberal Media Elites at the New York Times that shows the voting shift between 2004 and 2008. The redder the county/region, the more people shifted their votes to the GOP. The bluer the area, the more people shifted from the GOP to the Dems.
 

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From Megan McArdel in the Atlantic:

I've been saddened and appalled to watch the people who voted with me display behavior they would be ashamed to find in their three year old in any other context.

I don't mean celebrating their win. I mean celebrating their opponents loss. I mean taking more obvious enjoyment in the fact that the people they disagree with are unhappy, developing fantasies of being the boot stomping into those peoples' faces--forever. Four years ago (or was it six?) I told my commenters to stop gloating, only to be dismissed as a nannying concern troll. They'd earned it, you see. After years of abuse from the other side, they deserved to take joy in the disappointment of others.

How'd that work out, guys?

Every time we have an election, the partisans confuse the fact that the independents disliked the opposition candidate, with the idea that the independents joined their party. The independents did not want to stomp the Democrats in 2004, and they do not want to stomp the Republicans now. They are not interested in advancing the electoral fortunes of the Democratic Party, any more than they were preparing to hand the Republicans a "permanent majority" in 2004. And when the various parties act as if it is so--as if the independents had actually voted to join their power-hungry two-minutes-hate, rather than voting for the guy they thought would best shelter them from the vicissitudes of fate . . . well, for the last few elections, they've had their asses handed to them on a silver platter two years later.
Not that I think you're doing this, DS. I just want to point out that these changes should not be considered reflective of anything other than the mood on Nov. 4, 2008.
 

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It is certainly NOT my intention to wave this map in the face of McCain supporters as some sort of childish "nahnahnah." We have some serious healing to do in this country.

We've been hearing for years that ours is a "center-right" country. This map indicates something different. Is it indicative of a sea-change of American political philosophy? I don't think so. I think we're mostly centrist, not center-left (or center-right). To me the map illustrates a successful Democratic voter registration effort coupled with independents voting Dem vs. Repub coupled with a general rejection of Bush/Cheney coupled with an inspirational Dem candidate.
 

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I didn't see it as gloating either, Helio but see it as an interesting graphic illustrating George Will's statement today that " The South is beginning to look less like the firm foundation of a national party than the embattled redoubt of a regional one. "

If you look at the map, you can see just that. Dem gains all across the country, R gains only in the South (the "embattled redoubt").

-AH
 

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I didn't think DS was gloating (didn't I qualify that well enough?). I was thread-hijacking with my quote, so I thought' I'd say so.
 

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First and foremost, I'd say the map illustrates the power of independents in contemporary presidential elections. Those folks voted for Obama in big numbers, though as McArdel notes in the Helio-supplied quote: "They are not interested in advancing the electoral fortunes of the Democratic Party, any more than they were preparing to hand the Republicans a 'permanent majority' in 2004."

In my estimation, Democrats who conclude from a glance at that map that the Democratic Party is hugely ascendant are kinda kidding themselves. It's the independents who determined this election.
 

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It is certainly NOT my intention to wave this map in the face of McCain supporters as some sort of childish "nahnahnah." We have some serious healing to do in this country.

We've been hearing for years that ours is a "center-right" country. This map indicates something different. Is it indicative of a sea-change of American political philosophy? I don't think so. I think we're mostly centrist, not center-left (or center-right). To me the map illustrates a successful Democratic voter registration effort coupled with independents voting Dem vs. Repub coupled with a general rejection of Bush/Cheney coupled with an inspirational Dem candidate.



This doesn't dispute that we are a right to center country. It indicates the normally right to center voter shifted to the left in this election...do you not see the difference?
 

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I think it says more about how the 'old guard' is being slowly replaced by the 'new guard'. In Chaffee County, McCain won by just 5 votes, 3832 to 3827. That is a 0.1% difference! Just goes to show that a rural, ranching county is indeed changing. In years past, the vote would be 80+% for the repubs. We also have a bumper crop of kids, 65 kindergardners! That is just to show that there are a lot of younger families in the area now.
 

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Just after the election was called I spoke with my brother in the Florida Panhandle (the "Redneck Riveria") who told me that my nephew had cast the first vote of his life that day for the winning candidate. It occurred to me that for a generation of kids growing up right now, the notion of a black person being well-spoken, intelligent, and getting elected to the presidency of the greatest nation on earth with a name like "Barak Hussein Obama" will be perfectly normal.

That is a beautiful thing, as far as I'm concerned.

Another thing that occurred to me is that to get these people's votes, the Republicans will have to rely on tactics other than the racist bogeyman slime they've used with great success from the unveiling of the Willie Horton ads in 1988 to the racist slurs we saw in this election.
 

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Just after the election was called I spoke with my brother in the Florida Panhandle (the "Redneck Riveria") who told me that my nephew had cast the first vote of his life that day for the winning candidate. It occurred to me that for a generation of kids growing up right now, the notion of a black person being well-spoken, intelligent, and getting elected to the presidency of the greatest nation on earth with a name like "Barak Hussein Obama" will be perfectly normal.

That is a beautiful thing, as far as I'm concerned.

Another thing that occurred to me is that to get these people's votes, the Republicans will have to rely on tactics other than the racist bogeyman slime they've used with great success from the unveiling of the Willie Horton ads in 1988 to the racist slurs we saw in this election.

What racial slurs are you talking about in this election?
 

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I was gnashing over the boneheaded Wyoming electorate, that voted for McCain and sent three Republicans to DC once more (Serbia of the USA) but the map gives me hope.

Albany County, my birthplace and home, is a nice medium blue and Carbon County (strip-mining, clearcutting, hell yes!) is a deep dark blue. Maybe the calls I made (volunteering for the Dems) made some small difference.

Also, according to a recent survey, Dick Cheney's approval rating is down to 30% in Wyoming!

So we might be worth saving.

(Historical note: when the old-time Mäori won a battle, they cooked the losers and ate them. So perhaps a bit of gloating and smugness is not so bad after all— )
 

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The map is a little scary to me. In late December I am moving to North West Arkansas (NWA, as the locals call it). If you look at the map nearly the whole state shifted to red. My mom lives in northern Alabama and she had friends who had voted democratic their entire life and pulled support from DNC because they did not want a "person of color" (more often they used the other term) as the president. Dont get me wrong I am not assuming that most people who voted for McCain did so because of Obamas heritage but when a whole georgraphic region of our country which happens to have such a stained history well... it makes me a little nervous.

And for once I think I might defend Mr C.... a little. I dont recall a racial anything coming from the GOP or their candidate. Now from their supporters on the other hand, I heard a ton of crazy stuff. The GOP cant control their supporters anymore than the DEMS can. So I cant completely blame them for all that crazy stuff. although the crazy chick that claimed she was attacked by a black Obama supporter and carved a backwards B in her face was kinda funny. And yeah suggesting that Obama was a terroritst by association was lame.

rodda
 

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Chip,

First I need to say that I voted for Obama. So I am not being defensive.

I think it would be really hard to draw a line as to if and how the GOP could be held accountable for what their followers do. Certainly their leaders, people that the GOP chose to represent them are accountable. The GOP and them DEMS did not choose who would follow them.

They did do some disgusting things like playing up the rummors. The GOP never mentioned the rumors directly about about the lapel, not saying the pledge, taking his oath on the koran by doing the whole terrorist by association. In some ways I think that was worse than if their had been a racial slur.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I was gnashing over the boneheaded Wyoming electorate, that voted for McCain and sent three Republicans to DC once more (Serbia of the USA) but the map gives me hope.

Albany County, my birthplace and home, is a nice medium blue and Carbon County (strip-mining, clearcutting, hell yes!) is a deep dark blue. Maybe the calls I made (volunteering for the Dems) made some small difference.

Also, according to a recent survey, Dick Cheney's approval rating is down to 30% in Wyoming!

So we might be worth saving.

(Historical note: when the old-time Mäori won a battle, they cooked the losers and ate them. So perhaps a bit of gloating and smugness is not so bad after all— )
Even DICK CHENEY has fallen into disfavor in Wyoming? Congratulations, Wyoming!

Regarding the Maori victory celebrations... I shudder to think about the greasiness of the meat if Dems were to practice such culinary excess. I would be forced to become one of those annoying vegan types...
 

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Regarding the Maori victory celebrations... I shudder to think about the greasiness of the meat if Dems were to practice such culinary excess. I would be forced to become one of those annoying vegan types...
Naw, mate— they cooked 'em up in an umu (earth oven) so the grease drains into the pit. Karl (Porky) Rove looks pretty tender & succulent already. Ted Stevens might take a while.

Actually, after they wiped out the moa (imagine a 300 lb. turkey) they were a bit short on protein, and hand-to-hand combat takes a lot out of you.

About the GOP, I think we are using the term differently. Sounds as if you mean the candidates, official spokesgeeks, party operatives, et al. I mean the whole thundering herd.
 

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Here's a map produced by the Godless, Eastern Liberal Media Elites at the New York Times that shows the voting shift between 2004 and 2008. The redder the county/region, the more people shifted their votes to the GOP. The bluer the area, the more people shifted from the GOP to the Dems.
Hey Steve - can you post a link to the original NYT article? I want to read it and pass it on, but I couldn't find it.
 
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