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Discussion Starter #1
My 17 yo son has run Pumphouse a couple of times in his Lynx II. His main experience is on a raft. Would Browns at current levels be a good next step? Thinking of this Sunday.
 

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I would think he should be fine if he's comfortable on the water in general. The only thing I would worry about is Zoom Flume, and that is easy to walk if you want.
 

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Many people fitting that description have used my duckei on Browns following me. The only question would be will he freak if he ends up in the water mid way down Zoom or will he revel in the adventure of it. sj
 

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and to add to sj's post.....will they want to walk out if they freak, easy to do on many roadside runs, not so easy in browns.
 

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if he is comfortable in that water, I agree he should do fine...I believe you might be able to scout zoom and suck hole
 

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zoom is an easy scout and if you take out at hecla you will avoid seidels
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Additional info!! We did a one day Swiftwater course earlier in the year, so he has done a bit of river swimming, although that was in the Pinnacle Rock area. He was with me for a Middle Fork trip in June and we've run the Royal Gorge, so he has experienced big water, but he was on the raft. I haven't been down Browns in a few years and that was on a comm. paddle raft. I've never had my oar rig through there. I will be in my 14 ft oar rig, so I guess we can always roll it up if needed. Maybe I'm just being over cautious.
Thanks for your thoughts
 

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I think your being over cautious. I would worry more about yourself than an able bodied 17-year old (while swimming). Do the whole canyon, siedels was the funnest rapid. We just got off browns last weekend. And saw all types of youth in duckies in the river. At current levels, we all thought it was a class II+, Zume and Siedels, ranked III, and just dont go sideways into toilet bowl.
 

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With raft support I'd say why not? He'll know after the 1st two rapids whether or not he's made a good choice and the odds of getting too banged up aren't high. If he was comfortable at a moderate flow on Pumphouse then its not an unreasonable step up.

At low flows in a Lynx II he'll probably do fine in Zoom. Sneaking that 14 footer past the Toilet Bowl in Widowmaker might cause him some concern. That will be harder than anything he did on the Pump. You might want to look at that section.

Have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. We ran it today and my son did great. He didn't swim and it really helped his confidence.

Traffic on the river was pretty high (as you would expect) and a couple, not all, of the guides we encountered acted like they owned the place and I'm just damn glad I don't have to put up with there BS on a regular basis. The rude ones were in some raggedy ass looking grey rafts. Couldn't even catch a name. They seemed to take enjoyment out off running over the top of you and then crowding you into to the rocks. I suppose it's just a big game with them.

All in all it was a great day although I'm not sure I'll take my raft down it again at that low of level. Or on a weekend for that matter.
 

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sucks about the guides. they don't make dick for money so they have to feel superior in some way. they are usually the same guides that just wrapped their raft in the rapid you just rowed like they wish they could too... :D

glad your kid had a good day.
 

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I know what you mean about all the rafts in Brown's Canyon and how they can run you down. I've bounced off a few rafts in my kayak and been under a raft twice.

But, I'm not that negative on the raft guides. They don't really have the meaneverability to avoid you, especially with a paddle raft. At low flows, their line is pretty precise. And, the boat upstream does have right of way.

I would just as soon have it that way too. In a kayak or IK, I'm more meaneverable than they are. If one of us has to move, I'd rather it be me. And since they have right of way, it kind of should be me who moves. Sometimes I cut it a bit close, and I pay the consequences......

Yea, the traffic there can be bad. But, if you launch late in the afternoon, the canyon is all yours.

Also, most of the guides are pretty cool and professional.
 

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I rowed Brown's a few weeks ago and ran into the same thing: a few shithead commercial raft guides. Most were nice enough and realized that they didn't own the river. However, there were a few that made me want cut some raft tubes. My raft actually got run into four times throughout the day and I can only belive that the hits were intentional. If they weren't, then these were the worst raft guides in the history of the world. If fact, one guy hit me and then said, "that's what you get for pulling out in front of our trip," which I didn't do. There was plenty of room and our private trip and his commercial trip were close but we weren't on top of each other. So why the hit dickhead?? I'm sure his clients thought he was a real class act. Again, most raft guides are great but unfortunately the few dirtbags give many a bad name.
 

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JBL said:
I "that's what you get for pulling out in front of our trip," .
christ, what a dick. no need for a knife in the tubes...just have your passengers grab the raft and open up his valves on a couple chambers...
"and that's what you get for being a cum guzzling ,sperm burper..."
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And here all this time I thought I was being a courteous boater by back rowing and giving the crafts in front of me a little room. I guess I should just ramrod through them. Learn something new every day.
 
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