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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone tried to Mamba yet? How does it compare to the Nomad? Looking for a creeker for Colorado with a little snapier feel, as opposed to paddling a slow "bathtub". Looking for a creeker that paddles a little more like a playboat. How would the Mamba compare to the Diesel? Would this boat be a good creeker option for Colorado...specifically hole punching ability and safety features. Thanks in advance.

mike
 

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seems good

I have the mamba 8.0 and really like it so far, just bounced down the upper box in it and felt snappy and fast. it should be a great colorado creeking boat(for the standard fare) would still recomend the nomad for the scary stuff. The boat is super light and seems to have good safety features. I can get out of it super fast if need be(i'm 6.4). I bet it is alot like the diesel and thats a great boat also.adios, atom...
www.newmexicoh2o.com
 

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I paddled the 8.0 a bunch on Gore this fall as I planned to maybe use it in the race. I liked it way more then I anticipated. It paddled similar to a creek design due to volume and where it is placed on the boat. The hull did fine with no bad edginess. As far as it and the diesel the main difference is the deck. This has a very prominent shedding deck and the diesel is a bit flatter. I think the mamba would make a great travel, safety, moderate creek potential boat. In my opinion, it's not wise to creek in a boat that does not have a rotomolded seat. Both the diesel and Mambas have thermoform seats, like a play boat has. For me pillar strength and seat area reinforcement (rotomolded) are far safer when it comes "crunch" time. Others think different but like I said, I dig a creeker that is beefier. A big side impact on a boat with thermoform guts is not good. We have already seen it in palyboats people have pinned or jacked up these past few years running tougher water. But again, you decide.

hobie
Dagger Kayaks
 

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Feedback

Great feedback Hobie.

As far as using the new "hybred" creeker/ riverrunner for creeking... they seem to be working really well. They handle similar to play kayaks and yet rebound and resurface like the creekers. For many they are the best of both worlds.

Hardcore creekers are still going to go for a boat that performs at it's best in tough enviroments. But, they have also invested the most time in those boats and they buy boats mostly for one purpose (CREEKING).

For the average paddler- they are looking for the one kayak that does it all and does it well. For tougher runs or just river running made easier (and more comfortable) the "hybreds" are really doing the job well. I've seem more people buying them then buying pure creek designs. They just give the average paddler more options in the same boat. And, the feedback we're getting from the owners is that they couldn't be happier with their purchases.

Hobie addressed the biggest concern that the class V-er's and creekers have pointed out about the seats. And, for that reason Wavesport will be putting in rotomolded seats in the Diesels for 2005 (optional). We will have them in stock for next season.
 

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Good to hear they are making a rotomolded seat an option. I think for serious creeking you still might want to consider the fact it has such a flat deck. It's not as strong as a shedding deck. It's easier to crunch when it is flat. Don't get me wrong, I think the diesel is a good boat but always be careful about your choices if you are getting involved with some gnar.

hobie
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Don and Hobie..

Just trying to figure out my next move with a creekboat. Just got back from paddling in New Zealand...took my Embudo down there and sold it. The boat paddled great, but I think I'm a little small for it (5'8 and 155 pounds). So now I'm looking to get into something a little smaller for a primary creeker. I'm looking for something that will boof really well and be manueverable similar to a playboat (I have a Kingpin 6.2 and love it), but I don't want to sacrafice safety and hole punching abiltity. That is what I liked most about the Embudo. So I guess my choices would be Nomad 8.1, Mamba 7.5, or Diesel 65. I definetly have mixed feelings about the hybrid boats. I'm not a big class 5+ paddler, but I'd like to have a boat that I'd feel confident taking down Bailey, Big South, OBJ, Clear Creek, Vallecito, Cali Waterfall stuff, Gore, etc. The Diesel and Nomad seem to be similar volume wise, but the Mamba 7.5 looks a little small at only 52 gallons. Plus to whole rotomolded seat safety thing makes me think that maybe I should just go for the full on creekboat like the Nomad. My buddies that I paddled with in NZ all had Nomads and liked them. The only comment they had was it wasn't super manueverable and kind of felt a little bath tubbish. So I guess I'm at a little dillema here. Any suggestions..... do you guys know anything about the new Jackson Creeker. Thanks .

Mike
 

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That 52 gallon has to be a typo. I saw the same thing and it made no sense at all for a midsize river/creeker. This website has 64 gallons for the 7.5. 71 gallons for the 8.0
http://playak.com/kayaks.php?id=251&id2=0
 

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Seat problems/oil canning in the nomad

Hey Ive got a nomad that had a decent amount of oilcanning so took out the seat and refoamed the bottom. I paddled it once and it didnt oil can but I now have more open space under the seat. the plastic seems really soft to the point that I press inthe plastic about an inch. Is there any thing stronger that i can use to stiffen up the hull? It seems too soft for bouncing off rocks. I was thinking of using the squeeze foam that expands, used in bathrooms to seal leaks. Do you all think this will be strong enough or should I just use more regular foam. I love the boat I just have it break. Russell
 

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Mini cell is the best but if it is as bad as it sounds you should contact Dagger direct and see about the situation. I have seen boats go soft but it sounds like you are having some real issues. No promises but something to look in to.

hobie
 

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Minicell

Thanks for the info Hobie. I took my boat apart again and refoamed it with 1" plus what was in previously. Im going to boat in a couple of days and see how it does. I cant cram any more foam in so I call dagger if it doesnt work. Russell
 
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