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I lookin at getting my first creek boat before next season, I've heard good things about the Jefe and the Diesel. I plan to demo before I buy, but just wanted to to hear you all's thoughts on the subject. What are some of the features to consider? I'm 5' 10" 160lbs which puts me in the range for both sizes of the diesel, is bigger always better? Whats the skinny?
 

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Hey man,

The Jefe is the proven winner for most boaters. There have been a few instances of people having a hard time rolling the boat. But, for me at 150lbs I can handroll it with one hand. So, I think that aspect is just boater specific.

The Jefe will require more driver control than the diesel. Some people prefer to kinda sit back. If you feel good about your current control and use bow draws to steer the boat then I think you'll like it.

It treats me well.

Scott
LL supported boater.
 

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The Jefe is an awesome creek boat. It turns well, autoboofs, surfaces great, punches holes great, rolls easily, and is very sturdy.

The Nomad is also an awesome creeker. I thought that it tracked better than the Jefe. It turns, boofs, surfaces, rolls, and punches holes just as well as the Jefe. It is a little shorter and a little lighter than the Jefe (maybe an advantage, maybe not, depending on what you want). And the Nomad is the strongest boat on the market. The biggest downside to the Nomad is how difficult it is getting stuff in the back, which they are fixing in next year's model.

The Pyranha Burn is also one of my favorite modern creek boats. Unlike the Jefe and Nomad, it has edges and a flat hull. This makes for an easier transition from playboats and can be a benefit in big water IV and V, though it is a disadvantage in low-volume steep creeking. It does everything just as well as the Nomad and Jefe, in my opinion. My biggest issue was that it does not feel quite as bomber as the others.

All three are awesome creekers. Best of luck.

COUNT
 

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Due to some companies using better plastic such as prijon and fluid, I dont think you can back up the claim of the nomad being the strongest on the market. If you like that style of creeker then its a good way to go but I am not sure about it being the strongest.

greg
 

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I have had the same Nomad 8.5 for three seasons and it is till good to go. I paddle pretty hard and it has not broken. As for strength it is tough to say plastic wise. Seems everyone has broken one boat or another on a creek. I will however say that the interior pillar, step wall, and seat of the Nomad are about as structurally sound as it gets. EVERYTHING is rotomolded and in a creeker that is what I want. It takes way bigger hits and offers more impact strength.
And the Count is correct; we made the seat even better. The only real complaint I heard was about stern access so we fixed it. The seat is still rotomolded however the new design allows paddlers a ton of room to get into the stern. It is also adjustable and has the new outfitting (new backband and thick seat pad). Check out this photo of it on playak. The backband is unhooked so you can see the open stern access.

http://playak.com/article.php?sid=1233#dagger

Take a look at what some of our athletes run in the Nomad and you will see they are more then confident in this design. I don't know of many paddlers running bigger stuff then Pat Keller and Charlie Center right now, The boat they use? The Nomad 8.5. The thing rocks.
 

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LOL, I could have predicted that you were going to step in on this one. Seems like a strong boat.
 

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No doubt, I love the boat. I listned to everyones comments for two years about the stern. That was really the main complaint so we fixed it and gave the access. As for the photos, I posted the wrong one first. When you look at the most recent look just to the left of the rock on the top drop. You can see him just at the lip. My point is that the boat is VERY capable and up for any creeking job at hand. I know the paddlers are world class but they too love the Nomad. It goes.
 

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rotomolded?

Ok, I've read the term too many times without knowing what it means. What does rotomolded mean? I know rotomolded in creekboat = good, sturdy, etc., but not sure why.
 

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It is a method of molding plastic. The same way many boats are made. When you roto a part like a seat, pillar, step wall, etc. it gives you a more 3D (I guess that is how I would describe it) part. Instead of just being one thickness of plastic it is hollow with multiple sides. It makes for a much stronger part. As an example look at a seat in a Nomad or Jeffe (LL has a nice creek seat as well) and notice how thick it is and then look at a typical play boat seat. They are thin and more flexible. The thicker "3D" seat will take a bigger hit and be stronger under stress. The process is done by opening a mold, putting in a powder like material (the plastic), close the mold, put it in an oven, as the plastic heats up the mold starts spinning so it sticks to the outer wall of the mold. When it is done you open the hold, pop it out and let it cool. Roto is sort for rotational molding.
 

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Teletumbler, To answer part of your original question: Between the 65 or 75, I would suggest trying the Diesel 75. More volume is better for creeking; faster resurfacing off drops, staying high on the water so you don't get bogged down on the edges...high and dry is a good thing for creeking. The 75 doesn't feel like a big boat when you are paddling downstream. Althought it isn't a "true" creekboat, it still performs well on creeks...at least it worked for me (and many others) for the past 3 years.

(ON A SIDE NOTE) I got to try the new Wave Sport Habitat 80 on a few rapids the other day at Gore. I didn't get to paddle it as much as I wanted so I can only say that I initially liked it and can't wait to paddle it again. Robert Pearson, Jimmy and the rest of the WS crew spent almost 3 years perfecting this boat, and it seems to have paid off.

And, Good news about the WS plastic! I was told - by a credible source - that WS is going back to the plastic that they used about 4 years ago (Foreplay, and first year EZ's) That plastic is bomber!

I hope this helps.

Mark Olson
WS Regional Team
 

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I'm not a fan of the Diesel. Too wide and too flat. I don't consider it a mainstream creeker.

Jackson plastic is pretty bomber. Their boats are holding up well.

Jefe seems like the perfect creeker shape.
 
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