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Discussion Starter #1
It's always good to check yourself before you go off on someone. I've been boating a few years and ever since my first time on moving water I've been told "down river boaters have the right of way" I beleive this to be a standard in the boating community. On sunday afternoon in Golden I was with a group of beginners eddieing out above one of the last drops when a boater below waved us through. All the sudden some guy jumped into the hole and wouldn't yeild. The rest of the group stoped and waited for him then started down when he jumped in again. No one hit him or anything, but when I went to ask him about it He started giving me a bunch of attitude about how he was a local and runs the place. When I simply asked if he was firmilar with the courtsey system and he just steped up his attitude. The guys with him didn't say a word and he left soon after that. I just wanted to see if anyone else out there ever had simlar experiences, and how they might handel somthing like this. I've never had anything but good times boating in Golden, but the locals only crap was not cool.
 

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Well, as someone who was there, it would be one thing if you were ushering down a group and they had troubles and had missed the eddie and went through the hole. But, you guys were sitting above the hole for 10 minutes. Is everyone below just supposed to wait until you come through to take their turn on the feature. I know that if I am stopped above, I wait the 10-30 sec. until the poerson is done with their ride, before I head down, and usually am waved down, which **** did numerous times while you were sitting there. It is one thing to have upstream right of way, however to stop and wait 10 yards above in an eddie for 10 minutes and then head down when someone is in the feature does not seem courteous to me. You are already stopped and waiting, why not wait until that person if finished with his run?
my2cents
 

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If you were with a group of beginners, why didn't you all just go and kick his ass. Nothin' teaches courtesy and eddiequette like a good ass kickin' :twisted:

As for eddiequette, beginners always have the right of way becasue they are a liablility, just like drunk drivers have the right of way.
 

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When in doubt about who had the right of way, offer an apology. If you know it was their fault and you feel you must confront them about it, then do it humbly. If they are cool they will say don't worry about it or "I'm sorry" and both of you will feel better, no matter whose fault it was.

If they respond disrespectfully then at least you tried. At that point, it becomes an exercise in anger management and what you do about it is totally up to you. At that point, all is fair.

It sounds like you may not have approached the guy humbly. If someone paddled up to me and asked me if I was familiar with the courtesy system I might get violent.
 

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If your going to brag about being a local, then at least represent something besides Golden WWP. Seriously, that place sucks, especially this time of year. It's the equivalent of ski bumming at the base of Keystone, and then claiming locals only on all of the Green runs. I'm all for paddling in the off season, but don't pretend you own it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think I was as polite as I could be. Puma fish, One of the beginners was my son (age six) so if you didn't notice he dosen't have a lot of control yet. So if It seems like we took a few minutes so be it.
 

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Honesty is the best policy right?

I would like to respond to the defamation of character that seems to be happening to me in this forum as I am the bastard "local" in Mr. James fable.

Here is what happened I was back surfing in the lowest hole in Golden when a kayaker plowed into me and forced me out of the hole and flipped me. I rolled and the beginner kayaker was very apolegetic and I told him that I had no worries. I noticed a group of kayakers above the hole that were sitting and talking I reentered the hole and the next thing that I noticed was another kayaker coming right at me. I eddied out and said to my friends that it seemed the lesson above did not include river manners. I did not give it another thought until approached very aggressively by a kayaker I can only assume is Mr. James who then grabbed my kayak and told me that his lesson had the right of way. I simply told him that he should call me next time I can use his hole and got out.

I don't generally reply to these types of forums, but I hope that this is perhaps therapeutic for James because clearly you must be suffering from hallucinations of people waving you down the river, perhaps it is from spending to much time typing and not enough time paddling. I sincerely wish you the best and I hope that perhaps this truthful account will ease your mind. Mahalo
 

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That's funny, because I was there as well and I remember a paddler jumping into the hole while some from our group were en route for the hole. Funny how perspectives differ from person to person.

Well, I think all James is trying to get across is that he tried to ask the guy if he realized that we had beginners with us. I also believe he was trying to feel the guy out because we were getting ready to run it again and didn't want to have an accident with anyone. I think his intention was more geared to establish rapport with the paddler so he would recognize us later that day. Unfortunately this was not percieved by the other guy and I guess it got tense. Besides the paddler we are referring to, everyone was extremely polite and patient with us, that was the contrast of the whole situation.
 

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I have had both experiences at Golden sitting in an eddie getting waved down only to have someone else pull in the hole as I was paddling into it.
And being waved in and let pass by with words of encouragement beinging yelled out.

Seems the times I've been pulled in on was by people not paying attintion to what was going on, kind of like in traffic.

When you are heading down stream you do have the right of way even in a playpark, but you still have to try to keep from hitting the others there, the rules of navagation apply even to kayaks so a person playing needs to be paying attintion to the upstream traffic weather it is new boaters or old schoolers......
 

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We actually have a guy paddling out of Chattanooga who's notorious for this sort of thing. He's flipped everyone from beginners (he nailed me on my second run EVER) to advanced guys, and flipped one of the best paddlers I know into a swim.... I was pissy because I had no confidence and few skills and was really out-of-place in a hard-sided plastic kayak at the time I got taken out. But alot of folks seem to be really entertained by it, and no one seems to hold a grudge against him....?

"Oh, that's just ___.... the bastard cut in under me a few years ago, too... hahaha.... he's just clueless like that, y'know??"

Maybe it's whether you've got the carnage factor set up for you or against you that makes it count though?
;)
 

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Common sense should prevail. There isn’t a hard line on right and wrong.. An example is if you are in a WW park, and you can skirt the wave while someone is surfing the wave, and you want to surf the wave, then eddy out, and wait your turn.....

Up stream boater has the right away... That being said, be courteous.. Don’t hang out for minutes at a time above the hole/wave....

I have found myself in a similar situation. I just usually head on down stream. The boater that is surfing will usually get out of the way before I enter.. If not, then they usually get rammed.. Pretty funny actually, and no hard feeling cause I am in the right......

If you’re on the river, and want to head down stream, then do what you want..

All else fails, MIGHT makes RIGHT.. START swinging…
 

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People in Golden have been nothing but nice to me, despite my infractions of the "Golden Rules". I understand the protocol now though. Rules are rules, obey them or leave. The person on the wave has the right of way. It would be nice for that person to wave an up river boater thru, but not nessecary. Essentially a boater above is in the same line as those in the eddy and should wait his/her turn. I hope some violent thug from Boulder (ie. bouldermatty) would not resort to taking a swing just because he did not fully understand the rules.[/list]
 

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I hope some violent thug from Boulder (i.e. bouldermatty) would not resort to taking a swing just because he did not fully understand the rules.[/list]

Yo Soiled Green.. This is why you get your arse kicked on a weekly basis.. You got you’re head up your BUTT... AND you have your "rules" backwards...

There needs to be a bit more of a "kayaker cross" type atmosphere at the play parks.. Golly how many times can you spin backwards and forwards.. OOO Lokk at me honey bunny…

Lets see some real action where people are ramming into each other, swinging and wrestling on the banks of the river... Dogs attacking other dogs, paddles slapping fore heads, people urinating on trees...

Aw heck, guess I gota go the ShoSho….
 

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I agree with soylent

I think that the upstream boater has the right of way is correct most of the time, but not all the time. In a river with rafts it is obviously correct. In a river where downstream boater have a hard time eddying out, or are in swift current approaching a surf spot, the same thing applies. Golden is different though. Most of the water between play features is pretty slack, and most boaters are there for the play features. In practice it seems to me that the surfer has the right of way. Downstream boaters can easily eddy out or ferry to a chilled spot so as not to interrupt the surf. If you want to go down, skirt the wave, hole and slide into the eddy. As a courtesy, if no one is "waving you" down, hold up your paddle to signal that you are coming to let the boaters downstream know. When you are surfing, you might be focusing on the hole and no see the upstream boaters. In my mind the upstream boater should take it on themselves to not drop in on surfers. If a surfer jumps in the hole, skirt them. I frequently jump in the hole while upstream boaters spend lots of time thinking about the line. Common sense and courtesy should be the norm. Also if you bang boats and run into each other, no big deal, we are all on the river to have fun. Sometimes accidents happen.
 

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I look at is like this. Why do we have to get all worked up about this kind of thing. During the snow season you see it all the time, "some texan cut me off, i am so pissed... wha wha wha...." Shut up. Atleast you get to be on the river, period. Its not a right that you have to be on the wave or paddling down the river, it is a priviledge. So just relax and be greatful you dont live in Africa and have aids or something. Honestly how much of your play time or river running time did it all take? And I know that the whole thing could have been potentially dangerous but was it really that bad. Is it really worth all the stress.

relax and be greatful,

ben
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The other guy's name is John. I know that because I introduced myself as he did also as the conversation began. I never Grabed anyones boat. His account is pretty far fetched. I was there with my girlfriend and her six year old. John just got really short and acted like he owned the place, then left.
 
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