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These are the articles that we want to see more of...owners on the way to ruin giving a big FU to the government. Wish I had known about the opening, I certainly would have attended. Protesters on the steps of the Capitol is silly, let's make them enforce these feckless policies in person.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2020/05/10/castle-rock-cc-coffee-reopens-coronavirus/amp/
"Good" shoulder to shoulder crowd. I suppose the disclaimer is "proove that someone caught it at my resturant" or try to make me responsible - legally or morally. 2-14 day incubation period makes it harder to trace a source and gives the owners a supposed "out". Really?
 

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Actually the big FU is not to government - it is directed to health care workers. These unselfish HC heros will treat anbody regardless of their reckless actions. One of the freedoms we enjoy in America is that everybody has the "right" to be stupid and irresponsible.
 

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SarahofTheWaves
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It is the long incubation period and lack of testing and tracing that is making Covid-19 such a problem. If the restaurant was serving salmonella infected romiane, the health department would shut them down as soon as possible after tracing the infections through the community.
 

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that article points out some instances,4,of stats being fudged.In each instance the person did have Covid just may have died of something else. 4 out of 1091 is a pretty low %,though it is fair to assume there are more,but it is also fair to assume there are uncounted deaths as Fauci said,probably a lot more than 4 or whatever the overcount is.

I would say that the counties wanting to open prematurely have an economic incentive to downplay the facts.What is the supposed motive of this conspiracy theory of government making things out to be worse than they are and harming the economy deliberately?How do they benefit? Qui bono?
 

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that article points out some instances,4,of stats being fudged.In each instance the person did have Covid just may have died of something else. 4 out of 1091 is a pretty low %,though it is fair to assume there are more,but it is also fair to assume there are uncounted deaths as Fauci said,probably a lot more than 4 or whatever the overcount is.

I would say that the counties wanting to open prematurely have an economic incentive to downplay the facts.What is the supposed motive of this conspiracy theory of government making things out to be worse than they are and harming the economy deliberately?How do they benefit? Qui bono?
No idea but all it does is build more mistrust in the Govt. entities than their already is which just fuels the conspiracy theorists out there.
 

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I agree with what you said,but it seems like the cart is before the horse.People are so convinced government has some nefarious plot against them [ fueled by right wing crack pot media] that they seize on every little mistake as intentional.The overcounting seems due to the methodology they cooked up having some ambiguities.Every body seems to think people dealing with a new problem on the fly are supposed to be perfect.Yes they are making it up as they go along based on the best info available up that point in time. I hate Trump ,but i'd even cut him some slack on making mistakes ,to a point.
 

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Never mind the 3 packs of Marlboro reds they smoked every day for 50 years, it was the virus that killed them.
What difference does it make if a person dies sooner from COVID-19 or later from the things they knew were going to kill them?

If a terminally ill patient was killed in a car wreck the day before their illness would have killed them, would you prefer that their certificate of death state: Car Wreck (although it was supposed to be terminal cancer *eye roll*)?

Arguing that a person’s lifestyle should dictate whether or not they “deserve” to survive COVID-19 is insensitive, self-serving, and of limited focus. It is easy, cognitively, to focus on the people with unhealthy lifestyles who pass away because it is less threatening to you-- your reasoning seems to stem from hope that your mantra (“I am a healthy person, therefore I will not have any problem with this virus”) will hold true and that all those who have passed away “had it coming” because of their lifestyle choices. Many of the fatalities so far have been people with no known prior health conditions. Even if people do not die as a result, many patients who have “recovered” do so with side-effects that will be with them for the rest of their lives.

On this note, there has been an increase in at-home deaths. My second-cousin passed away of a heart attack on Easter. He was reluctant to go to the hospital for fear of infection (which would have had severe consequences for him because of his heart condition and could have negatively affected his family) and ended up passing away from a cardiac event at home. His and other deaths are linked to COVID-19 but not attributed to it, even though it could be argued that they “would have lived for one more day without the disaster.”

The other shortcoming of your example (smoking, not COVID = death) is downplaying the importance of time and closure to the families of a loved one.

My friend works in the neuro ward at a regional hospital. They have very few ventilators available, and because of this the doctors in this hospital have to decide with every patient who may need ventilation (whether or not it is COVID-related) whether to ventilate them if they seem like they have a good chance of survival, or to simply recommend comfort measures. With more ventilators tied up, more patients are going directly to comfort measures. Going to comfort measures reduces the life expectancy greatly for those patients, which means loved ones may not have the opportunity to say final goodbyes.

Nurses are being threatened with bodily harm and death by family members of patients who passed away before they were able to say goodbye because these family members think their loved one was not receiving adequate care. This tells me, as a student of human behavior, that it is really important for people to say goodbye to a loved one in person and to be able to spend time with them before they are gone.

My mom’s best friend was one of these patients who was moved to comfort measures. He was hospitalized before the pandemic grew to what it became in March because he has lived his whole life with spina bifida and extreme health complications from a car accident he suffered when he was 11. After 65 years of stress, his mind was sharp but his body was beginning to break down. He did not have COVID-19, but because he was taking up a ventilator and did not have an optimistic prognosis, he was moved to comfort measures and passed away in mid-March. Nothing about COVID-19 was on his death certificate, although the timing of his death was the direct result of this disaster.

I know plenty of people with fragile health who have done nothing to cause their own health circumstances. Life deals some people a pretty crappy hand. You are lucky if everyone you know was born in good health and has not suffered health complications at the hands of their genetic code.

Please don’t put blame on the victims. Please think before you post knee-jerk reactions, no matter how topical or witty.
 

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well they [ colo] just released some revised stats that relate to what we were talkin' 'bout[ willis :eek:].now they are distinguishing between people with Covid who died [ now 1151 ] from those who died of Covid [ now 878].So that is a lot more overcount than expected not just 4 plus a few more.But they say Covid is an underlying condition in the deaths just with Covid...so what are you supposed to get out of that?


a] the gov are a bunch of liars who padded the stats by over 25%

b] 60 more people died in less than a day, around 75% OF Covid 19,and more
whose condition certainly was not helped by Covid

c]they are learning as they go and trying to correct and /or clarify the aforementioned ambiguities. and give more accurate info ...so in effect self policing their mistakes

d]we are fucked..fighting an out of control mess..playing catch up ball

e]your [ buzzards ] personal take,let's hear it
 

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I suspect it's politics, plain and simple. For Colorado, the Dems in charge want people to stay home, so of course they will exaggerate counts if they can for greater fear factor. While in other states, where Repubs are in control my guess is you will see the opposite, under counting trying to get the folks back out. And yes this is corruption on both sides.
 

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SarahofTheWaves
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The CDC does not count infections, pandemics, outbreaks, or overdoses with specific numbers. It is always an estimate. While some individuals in the health care system might have an agenda to count cases up or down, they are most likely busy with other more pressing matters. Matters such as sick people, conflicting information, and inadequate and inaccurate testing.
Perhaps the deceased Cortez individual would, in the end, be counted as a Covid case, but not a Covid death. And certainly if you were in the police, fire, EMS, or medical profession in Cortez, you'd want to have a conservative idea of the number of infected people you might be encountering during your work day.
 

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jbolson,I partially agree with that ,but lean more towards C..all of the people had Covid,it is not like they are fabricating cases,but yes the dems want a more inclusive count and repubs a downplayed count.

sarah,i am sure you know what you're talking about .It is all so complicated it is starting to make my head hurt.
 

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I have a few questions about this data set. What is your interpretation? Are you saying that COVID-19 death counts are accurate or inaccurate? I'm assuming that you are trying to minimize the impact of COVID-19 so I'm asking for clarification.
 

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I'm not suggesting anything.

I find data fascinating. Just like poring over current, past, and forecast stream flows.

I have no reason to believe the CDC stats are inaccurate. I do think the media biases these numbers in their reporting (have you heard anyone quote 54k in the past week? I have not).

And I think 835k - 54k = 781k is the number of Americans who likely die during this time frame any given year.

Somewhere around 3 million Americans are born every year. Somewhere around 3 million Americans die every year. Taking a BIG step back from the present situation, it is the natural order of things.
 

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The data seem unclear to me. Do the numbers of COVID deaths include the COVID & pnemonia deaths? Do the pnemonia deaths include the COVID & pnemonia deaths? What were the numbers like last year at this time?
 
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