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Discussion Starter #1
:mad: JOHNSON OUTDOORS :sad: bought Carlisle and has discontinued selling the handle. They want you to buy a whole new $100 oar. They will soon discontinue selling the blade as well. Even though every outfitter in the U.S. has sold out of them (the market exists and the need is there!), you cannot buy the replacement parts for the Carlisle oars.
Look, instead, to :grin: CATARACT OARS :grin: . Cataract oars are strong, lightweight and, best of all, you can buy the component you need instead of being forced to purchase a whole, new system at ten times the cost. I have Cataracts as well and they sell a great product.

 

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That is so screwed up. The market is bigger then it ever has been since they have been making that stuff. Price and the ability replace parts was Carlisle's best selling point. Looks like my company won't be needing anymore Carlisle products.
 

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News flash, Carlisle was purchased by Johnson Outdoors years ago this is not news.

Yes, we do not sell replacement handles, this is something I am trying to change but the fact of the matter is the handles are hard as shit to replace.

There is absolutely ZERO truth to the blades, we are NOT and I repeat we are not discontinuing the blades.

Laughing Water before you go around spreading false rumors, do a little research.

Danny Andres
Johnson Outdoors Rep for the Rocky Mountain Territory.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mr. Andres,

I apologize.

I know first-hand about the oar handles. I called your company directly and was informed by "customer service", with some disdain, that Johnson Outdoors was no longer selling handles. I called several national outfitters today to see if they still had a handle. They were all sold out. Does it make any sense, I wonder, to discontinue a product for which there is a strong market? This might seem to be, to the average observer, to be an attempt to "stick it", as they say, to the consumer. Two of the outfitters informed me that they are reconsidering their continued relationship with Carlisle oars. And this, primarily because of Carlisle's lack of concern about their customers. You will find that I am not the only one who has posted here regarding Carlisle's "customer service". If you search the web, you will find disparaging remarks on outfitters web-sites about Carlisle's product. But, as Carlisle seems to be the 800 pound gorilla in this market, I imagine they won't even notice a few disgruntled consumers.

Again, I apologize for passing on what I have heard "blowing in the wind" about Carlisle blades. I wondered myself about the validity of that point, but it seemed plausible given the issue of the handles.

To date, I have replaced one oar handle myself and have a friend who replaced two. Anyone with average intelligence and access to basic, household tools can easily replace an oar handle. It makes me wonder, too, that an employee of a company would publically announce that his company's product is "hard as shit" to work with.

News flash, Carlisle was purchased by Johnson Outdoors years ago this is not news.

Yes, we do not sell replacement handles, this is something I am trying to change but the fact of the matter is the handles are hard as shit to replace.

There is absolutely ZERO truth to the blades, we are NOT and I repeat we are not discontinuing the blades.

Laughing Water before you go around spreading false rumors, do a little research.

Danny Andres
Johnson Outdoors Rep for the Rocky Mountain Territory.
 

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WTF?

To date, I have replaced one oar handle myself and have a friend who replaced two. Anyone with average intelligence and access to basic, household tools can easily replace an oar handle. It makes me wonder, too, that an employee of a company would publically announce that his company's product is "hard as shit" to work with.
Please dear sir, before you go insulting folks and implying some under-handed notion about their intelligence, LEARN TO F-ING SPELL. Your credibility tends to be less acceptable when you spell like a buffoon. While you may think you're off the hook because you live in C. Springs and things are a little slower to evolve down there, please consider your audience before you make such ASSumptions.

Your research methodology and data gathered are questionable at best. You spoke to shop employees and customer service reps who may or may not have been able to provide you with 100% accurate data - as documented in your original post that the paddle blades were soon to be discontinued - and then went crying about it on a public forum in an attempt to bash one company and promote another. Consider for a moment that your assumption about why "every outfitter in the US is sold out of them" ( you later stated that you called several - not all ) is incorrect (
the market exists and the need is there!
) and that there's a possibility that these parts have been discontinued longer than the 30 seconds it took you to discover it and post about it on an internet forum. (just like you assumed the purchase of Carlisle just went down) As a result, outfitters may have sold through their existing inventory in that time and as such, they are now out of stock.

Then you proceed to call out a representative of the company who merely is trying to clear the air and stop any false rumors from being spread? First you apologize to him, then you underhandedly end your rant with a quote and an implication that he shouldn't be posting on a public forum as a representative of the brand on such negative issues. His "hard as shit" statement likely came from those same sources that you gathered your data from - the shop employees themselves. You complain about customer service, and then this guy takes time out of his life to help provide just that, and then you continue to bitch about it and make semi-personal attacks on him?

Have fun with the on-going process of buying back your credibility. Why don't you start with an authentic apology rather than a tounge in cheek one that is as transparent as your rowing skills. How ironic that if you took the time to consider your words, much like your line on a river, that you wouldn't be sitting there like a broken oar handle...useless and unrepairable.

Nuff said :cool:
 

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It makes me wonder, too, that an employee of a company would publically announce that his company's product is "hard as shit" to work with.
And I have to wonder about what kind of agenda someone has when they log onto the Buzz for the first time and proceed to make their first posts disparaging of one brand of oar and sounding like Cataract Oar advertisements. Indeed a couple of your posts (I deleted one of the duplicates) used identical text, bold fonts, and emoticons.

Danny's been a member of this online community for a long time and has added a lot of good dialog - and to his credit I don't think I've ever seen him bashing his competition's products.

-AH
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thank you for your comments, Sir, as regards semi-personal attacks. This buffoon will keep them in mind when composing future posts. Oh, and thank you so much for pointing out, too, my abhorrent lack of rowing skills. I'll work diligently on that shortcoming. Good day.
Please dear sir, before you go insulting folks and implying some under-handed notion about their intelligence, LEARN TO F-ING SPELL. Your credibility tends to be less acceptable when you spell like a buffoon. While you may think you're off the hook because you live in C. Springs and things are a little slower to evolve down there, please consider your audience before you make such ASSumptions.

Your research methodology and data gathered are questionable at best. You spoke to shop employees and customer service reps who may or may not have been able to provide you with 100% accurate data - as documented in your original post that the paddle blades were soon to be discontinued - and then went crying about it on a public forum in an attempt to bash one company and promote another. Consider for a moment that your assumption about why "every outfitter in the US is sold out of them" ( you later stated that you called several - not all ) is incorrect () and that there's a possibility that these parts have been discontinued longer than the 30 seconds it took you to discover it and post about it on an internet forum. (just like you assumed the purchase of Carlisle just went down) As a result, outfitters may have sold through their existing inventory in that time and as such, they are now out of stock.

Then you proceed to call out a representative of the company who merely is trying to clear the air and stop any false rumors from being spread? First you apologize to him, then you underhandedly end your rant with a quote and an implication that he shouldn't be posting on a public forum as a representative of the brand on such negative issues. His "hard as shit" statement likely came from those same sources that you gathered your data from - the shop employees themselves. You complain about customer service, and then this guy takes time out of his life to help provide just that, and then you continue to bitch about it and make semi-personal attacks on him?

Have fun with the on-going process of buying back your credibility. Why don't you start with an authentic apology rather than a tounge in cheek one that is as transparent as your rowing skills. How ironic that if you took the time to consider your words, much like your line on a river, that you wouldn't be sitting there like a broken oar handle...useless and unrepairable.

Nuff said :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
For the record, I do not now, nor have I ever worked for any equipment manufacturing, wholesaling or retailing company. I am just another boater who has sung the praises of Cataract oars. I see on this site that I am in the majority on this issue. In turn, I am not too shy or reserved to publicly speak disparagingly of a product that does not offer the best choice to consumers. That is what conversation is all about.

And I have to wonder about what kind of agenda someone has when they log onto the Buzz for the first time and proceed to make their first posts disparaging of one brand of oar and sounding like Cataract Oar advertisements. Indeed a couple of your posts (I deleted one of the duplicates) used identical text, bold fonts, and emoticons.

Danny's been a member of this online community for a long time and has added a lot of good dialog - and to his credit I don't think I've ever seen him bashing his competition's products.

-AH
 

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Hey since you are the Johnson Outdoors Rep why the hell cant we get our hands on the Lendal four piece paddles. It sucks when Walmart (i.e. Johnson) buys out good products and then doesn't have the courtesy to continue building them. It would suck to see Johnson destroy another good brand.
 

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Laughing Water,

I only have one dealer in this territory which encompasses four states that has requested these parts and I am working on getting some for him. The rest of my dealer base as well as most of the dealers out there simply have not gotten the requests to stock these parts. As well as I have a few dealers that have in the past installed them and they were not satisfied with the installation, as it is installed at the factory with a pneumatic machine.


Yes, their are quite a few people on this site and out in the world that do not like the Carlisle product and that is fine, our product was designed with the commercial outfitters in mind so it is a heavy stiff oar. Sawyer makes a fantastic product as well as the other brands out there and I understand completely why a private rafter would lean towards those products.

Johnson Outdoors is a big corporation just like all other corporations when they purchase a smaller company that smaller company will never be same, and there is always a reason why that smaller company sells. It wasn't because that big company just came in and took it, it is usually because that smaller company is struggling so they sell it to a larger corporation. In doing this the larger company examines the new companies business practices and will make changes as they see fit.

It is an unfortunate part of corporate America, I can site examples within my company as well as the competition.

Rando,

Yes, it has been frustrating trying to get the 4-piece shafts form Lendal, the reason is, we moved production from Scotland to the US when we acquired that company. In doing so we have been building the shafts and then sending them back to Scotland for them to be inspected by the old factory to make sure that we have up held their high standards.

So it took a little bit to get the production set up to their standards and then we were back ordered and it is a timely process to produce these things so we have been behind for a while.
I have been told we will be fully stocked with product by mid may which is right around the corner.

Jed,

Give me a call if you need anything.

Andy,

thanks for your support.
 

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Laughing Water,

I think you meant "Danny" - I'm just a regular private rafter who rows with Sawyers on my main boat (see my profile photo) and who got Cataracts for the raft I share with another boater. I personally don't plan to get Carlisles because, like Danny said, they're "designed with the commercial outfitters in mind so it is a heavy stiff oar. Sawyer makes a fantastic product as well as the other brands out there "

That said, I'd love to pick up some used outfitter Carlisle raft paddles because they're sturdy and coated with plastic so my friends won't get aluminum oxide all over their hands.

-AH
 

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Andy-

Buy Carlisle paddles as a private boater? Those things will be all over the place after this summers runoff. (If your one of the guys that actually returns them, thanks!)

Danny-

Have you inflated the Stinger yet? I'm almost done at A-Basin, time to play!
 

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Jed,

I was out on shoshone last week, it was good to be floating on the river again. I will be down on the ark next week.

I can't wait till clear creek comes up.
 

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new oars and paddles

so, I thought that most everyone used carlisle blades with cataract shafts. anyway, it does kinda suck that carlise is owned by johnson outdoors, stupid corporate world we live in. we as paddlers should be able to make quality gear and sell it ourselves. that is why cataract is a better company, because they didn't sell out to the man. It really sucks that our industry standard comes from a bunch of butt wipes in their corporate offices.
 

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Howdy folks,

I want to stay out of the online fray, but Down River Equipment does have some of the Carlisle handles still around. 10 or so years ago, we made our own oars and used Carlisle handles. We have some handles left over from that process. We do not replace handles or have any advice on replacing handles.

The only other comment I have on this issue is some people may not like that Johnson Outdoors because it is a big corporation and that is fine. We can all choose to support whichever companies we want. Big corporations have their pros and cons, but please if you are going to try and influence people’s decisions HAVE THE APPROPRIATE AND CORRECT INFORMATION. One thing that is undisputed is Danny is a great person and an asset to the paddling community.

Sincerely,
Zach
DRE Store Manager
888-467-2144
 
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