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Discussion starter · #21 ·
maybe...but...

Personally, I would have taken the stove and chair as someone "reserving" the spot. Sadly for you, the person "reserving" the spot was crazed. Glad it didn't end up any crazier than it did.
When I worked to defuse the situation, I specifically apologized and said that if I had misread her "symbol" (as she called it), then I had made a mistake, but her reaction was "over the top" in relation to the perceived affrontal, and "we can work this out reasonably."

That being said, I'd like to clarify that her chair was NOT in one of the camping spots. It was set directly in an unloading path, about 10 feet from the nearest spot, of which there was at least two in the area, and it was also equidistant to a fire pit. There was a group of Oklahomans down the way (they were not there to ask when I arrived but a truck was there) so I thought maybe they had left their chair there the night before.

To be clear: Her explanation was that the CHAIR and STOVE alone reserved THE ENTIRE CAMPGROUND. I definitely thought that was "unorthodox" to say the least. I've camped in many, many "first-come, first-serve" locations and the rule of thumb is: if you want a spot, you have to at least put gear in that one spot. You can't put something in spot A and say that spot B through Z are also "covered". That's what she claimed.

As for my wife being a "pussy", that was a funny remark, I wasn't offended, but in spite of her normally demure demeanor and small size, she has the heart of a lion... she was in no rush to pull her gun, but I could tell that if that woman's physical assault were redirected from our gear toward one of us, she definitely would have pulled the gun.

And to the person who said she could get in trouble for pulling the weapon: if she felt physically endangered, or that her family was, then she would have been justified and would NOT have been prosecuted.

As for the comment about "concealed carry": it was an OPEN carry situation; her gun was in a holster on a belt, visible to anyone who took the time to look. Open carry is perfectly legal in Colorado, especially in wilderness and semi-wilderness public areas such as this particular campground.

Lessons learned:
1) I'll definitely make sure my wife continues to open carry when I'm out on the river. If I'm not there to protect her, I want her to be safe, and a gun is the best equalizer. It's sad we have to think that way, but that's reality.
2) Although I may have invaded her space, the woman's reaction WAS exaggerated.
3) Next time we'll give some more space away from any equipment that is left, however, a chair next to a fire pit or in a path should not be considered "sufficient claim" for a camping spot not clearly marked as "taken".
4) I think I was right to not react physically, even though I was greatly tempted to throw her in the river (that thought--and others--did occur to me). It had even occured to me to throw her stove into the river in retaliation.
5) I think I prevailed because I relied upon the general good nature of the boating community. My assumption was that her boating friends would be appalled by her aggression and violence, not to mention verbal abuse, and I was right. It was they, not I, who eventually convinced her that she was out of line. Boaters are generally a peaceful and friendly community, and I'd like to thank the ones who quietly rebuked her behavior and saved the day.

Thanks, everyone, for your input. I feel better knowing that most of you agree that, even if I had made a mistake, the reaction was unwarranted.
 
If there is (any) gear at a campsite I would say pick another site. You just never know who your site-mates will be and apparently as you learned not everyone is into sharing a site, no matter how big it is.
Plus, I think it is kind of rude to intrude on someones camp, even if you think it is 'big' enough for you all, could you really not find another spot? Why would you want to risk camping with totally nut jobs with your kids around?

We were camped in a spot off 375 in BV over the 4th, had a lot of room and there were about 7 of us camped there. We had a number of tents and charis set up, there was no question that this site was being used.

One morning a big RV with a trailer and his buddy just pulled into our site and parked...didn't ask...just parked like there was nobody there and proceeded to unload and leave running a 4wheeler and a dirt bike while they finished setting up...it was loud and totally obnoxious considering that there is a huge staging area for 'these' types of activities a few short turns down the road.

They intruded on our peaceful camp and I was pissed! We had to grab our dogs and throw them in the back of the truck because we could no longer let them roam free with these people and we had to listen to an RV generator even after they were on their way on the dirt bike and 4wheeler...We let them know that this was a camp site that was being used but they didn't seem to care-

Boo to camp poachers...Find your own spot, especailly if you had an agro dog and kids and your wife is packin heat.
 
Funny thing is, a guy can be a "dick" at the same time he's being a "pussy," a truly mind-bending anatomical feat.
This might clear things up... from the source of all wisdom... Team America World Police..

We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the Film Actors Guild are pussies. And Kim Jong Il is an asshole. Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
 
I think it is pretty crazy that you have your wife carry a gun in this situation. Is cooking dinner with your kids and yourself and other boaters and dogs around really meriting the gun? why not lock it in the car? I understand if you are out in the middle of nowhere, but... If I showed up to that campsite and saw your wife walking around with a gun with your two kids, with lots of other campers and dogs abound, I don't know how comfortable that would make me at all.
Just another reason to avoid the shit show disneyland that has become the Ark. Now featuring Moms with Guns. I just don't get this scenario.
 
Also, I don't mean any offense to you Yakmaker, whatever works for you, I guess I am missing the inherent danger that would make me want a gun while camping on the Ark. Different strokes, different folks.
I don't think the scenario calls for even considering pulling the gun out. Besides the lady being out of her tree, it doesn't seem that true danger was around the corner... again, I just don't get this.
 
I have always wondered why if pussy is such an insulting thing to be, men spend so much time chasing them.:roll:
It's a curse most of us must bear...
9 months trying to get out of one and the rest of our lives trying to get in to as many more as possible
 
I knew it wouldn't take long for the buzzards to circle. Give the guy a freakin' break, no reason his wife can't legally carry unless you're an Obama supporter. I find it kind of sexy and would love to bang a lady wearing a side arm.
 
OP: Your wife has a cool head and this is one of the few situations where OC is a great idea.

If I were you, I'd have called the cops and gotten the psycho lady on a disorderly conduct and destruction of property.

You my have been right or wrong, hard to say! More communication was probably necessary. But, unless this woman was the size of Jabba the Hut, she didn't need that much space. After all my years in the wilds of Colorado, I'm going to say you were in the right. But then you have to ask yourself, would you really want to camp near this fine example of a human? I'd opt for a more rural area, away from the Cherry Creek Attitude.

As for the woman, I'd like to let her know, as a physician, that they do have medication for PMS or whatever her dysfunction happens to be.

And then I'd offer her another gem of wisdom from a Colorado Native....STAY HOME!!!!

As for yourself...I'm sorry you had to run into my ex! I really did think she had moved to Alaska and things were safe here!!

Please assure the kids that there still are some good people in the world
Funniest post in the thread!
 
Well, I have to say that ever since that poor USGS geologist was killed out in Fairplay, you better believe I have a firearm with me camping--not nec. open carry--although out in more remote places, I do. while I certainly don't look for opportunities to use--don't even mention/show it in group camp situations--I would just much rather have one and not need one, than need one and not have one.

tough call Yak--While someone obviously left gear to represent some type of "claim", I would have to agree with you that a chair in the path and a stove on a table does not constitute a claim on the entire area--especially if it's as large as you say--but then considering what happened in hindsight, the better choice would obviously have been to move on to a 100% unclaimed spot.

about the dog issue, well, there are plenty of threads out there discussing that one--bottom line for me is, if a dog is not 100% mellow/obedient 100% of the time--pretty rare, then the owner needs to be 100% on top of the dog's activity off leash 100% of the time--again pretty rare unfortunately--not to dis those responsible owners out there, mind you...sounds like the woman wasn't in control of her dog.

It's a shame too though, because 9 out of 10 or maybe even 999 out of a thousand, would have been happy to meet you, and share stories and a campfire and beers for the evening, but you definitely won the booby-prize that night...


...and I try my darndest not to be either a pussy or a dick!
 
...To be clear: Her explanation was that the CHAIR and STOVE alone reserved THE ENTIRE CAMPGROUND. I definitely thought that was "unorthodox" to say the least. I've camped in many, many "first-come, first-serve" locations and the rule of thumb is: if you want a spot, you have to at least put gear in that one spot. You can't put something in spot A and say that spot B through Z are also "covered". That's what she claimed...
That's absurd, especially given she didn't even put anything at an actual camping spot, only on the path. Equate it to going to a restaurant. If you leave a jacket at the door, does that mean you're holding ALL of the table in the restaurant for your party? I don't think so, you'd likely not get a table at all. If you left the jacket at a table, you'd likely be holding just the one table, not the entire restaurant. if you wanted to hold the entire restaurant, you'd send in several people with several items and place them at all the tables you wanted to hold. And you'd also likely have at least one person watching over those spaces to make sure nobody else came a long and tried to take those spots or mistake your intentions. At least that's what i would expect a normal person with any common sense to do.

I find it even more absurd once her group got there, and they didn't really need all of the spots. She seemes to think the entire forrest is her own, and people like that deserve much worse than this woman got IMO. Again, would a reasonable person expect to walk into a restaurant that holds 100 people and expect to hold all of the tables when they only needed space for 50? Maybe some movie stars and such would (but then they are not reasonable people with any common sense :D), but not your everyday river rats.

And if that weren't enough, she has the nuts to get on your case for your dog, when yours is on a leash (as it is required to be) and hers is running free picking fights with other dogs?

I would have kicked her dog in the teeth and thrown her in the river, followed by her dog, her chair and her camp stove. ;) She deserved it. Kudos to you for maintaining a level head, because with my short temper, I probably would have blown a gasket with her. If I was in a particularly good mood, I may have actually egged her on a bit (removing my childeren from the scene) by being overly nice and pretending to be excessively ignorant "Oh, is that your stove and chair? I thought they were part of the samp site." and "Would it bother you too much if I let my dog loose so he can use some of the open space to poop in?"
 
Well the lady had a dog off the leash that could have attacked the kids. By coincidence this is exactly what happened to me the first time I ever camped on the Arkansas River about 10 yrs ago (a crazed rotweiler) so no I would not blame her a bit for carrying a piece. Shit does happen. Luckily the hillbilly trash owner got a hold of the thing before it has chance to do any damage but it was very scary situation.

I think it is pretty crazy that you have your wife carry a gun in this situation. Is cooking dinner with your kids and yourself and other boaters and dogs around really meriting the gun? why not lock it in the car? I understand if you are out in the middle of nowhere, but... If I showed up to that campsite and saw your wife walking around with a gun with your two kids, with lots of other campers and dogs abound, I don't know how comfortable that would make me at all.
Just another reason to avoid the shit show disneyland that has become the Ark. Now featuring Moms with Guns. I just don't get this scenario.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
moms with guns

I think it is pretty crazy that you have your wife carry a gun in this situation. Is cooking dinner with your kids and yourself and other boaters and dogs around really meriting the gun? why not lock it in the car? I understand if you are out in the middle of nowhere, but... If I showed up to that campsite and saw your wife walking around with a gun with your two kids, with lots of other campers and dogs abound, I don't know how comfortable that would make me at all.
Just another reason to avoid the shit show disneyland that has become the Ark. Now featuring Moms with Guns. I just don't get this scenario.
that's pretty funny, really. Let me point out that my wife had her gun on because I had been away to get ice. I had just returned and started dinner. AND it was precisely when we were "cooking dinner" that an aggressive nutjob showed up and got violent. What's the point of having gun rights, and open carry rights, if you lock up your gun at all time? You may not have time to get it when you need it.

That could only be said by someone with no clue about how crime happens. The violent folks don't show up and announce "in five minutes, I'm going to get violent, so take precautions now!"

Here's another point: I hiked up the hill (small game hunting on public lands) and found LOTS of signs that we had a mountain lion in the area. Three full skeletons, some with blood still on them, clear indication that it was a large predator. So if a lion popped into the camp site, what am I supposed to do? Hang on, kitty, let me get my gun.

By the way, there were at least THREE groups (including us) in that camp with firearms. I was TOTALLY comfortable with those other two groups. They were the nicest and most hospitable folks in the campground. So, dump your stereotypes.

And finally, my wife doesn't carry so YOU are comfortable. She carries so she and our kids are safe. And she is tee-totalling, polite woman, and a trained marxman, having competed in her earlier years. So it's not like she's some toothless ******* drunk with a six shooter on her hips.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
no offense taken, brother

Also, I don't mean any offense to you Yakmaker, whatever works for you, I guess I am missing the inherent danger that would make me want a gun while camping on the Ark. Different strokes, different folks.
I don't think the scenario calls for even considering pulling the gun out. Besides the lady being out of her tree, it doesn't seem that true danger was around the corner... again, I just don't get this.

I'm not one of those gun nuts shooting my guns into the air on the 4th of July. I didn't own a gun until 2 years ago (I'm 42 now). I inherited that pistol from my mother, who got it from her father.

I always felt a little uncomfortable, thought it was 'overkill', but since my wife was a marxman in school, she likes guns, enjoys target shooting, and feels safer knowing that while I'm boating she can defend herself.

Remember, she didn't pull the gun, but you weren't there to see this loon throwing our gear and screaming at us. That woman didn't scare me: I could have snapped her neck. But she was much larger than my wife. And how do you know that her boyfriend won't be a psycho too? I'd have had my hands full if they'd both have gone crazy on me.

I'll never again feel like we should keep the gun locked up. My feeling is that you just never know when danger lurks, when there is no way to call the police for help, you are ON YOUR OWN. Who is going to be responsible for your family's safety if it's not YOU?
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
pick another site?

If there is (any) gear at a campsite I would say pick another site. You just never know who your site-mates will be and apparently as you learned not everyone is into sharing a site, no matter how big it is.
Plus, I think it is kind of rude to intrude on someones camp, even if you think it is 'big' enough for you all, could you really not find another spot? Why would you want to risk camping with totally nut jobs with your kids around?
No, friend, public campgrounds don't work that way. I think the guy that gave the analogy of the restaurant is right. If your logic was applied, then there was not one single camp area available, because all of them had at least ONE tent already in it.

I understand the desire to be ALONE. But if that's your taste, why go to a place as heavily visited as the 4-mile section along the river? Go camp up in the BLM lands in Granite.

I don't have any problem sharing my area with other groups. Actually, I like meeting people. Nice people, anyway.
 
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