Mountain Buzz banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A friend of mine was kind enough to pass on a pair of JPW 16' tubes made around 1988. Unfortunately it did not come with a dry box full of cash for a frame, cooler and didn't even come with a dry box to mention either. So the following is a couple of weeks of drawing diagrams and researching NRS frames and DRE frames. I decided it would be cheaper to build a frame rather than purchase one new from $1200 to $1600. Then came the question of what size pipe, anodized, powder coated, mill finish, not to mention what did any of it mean anyways and how much would it all cost?

Design - The design is modeled after the DRE Deso 5 Bay XD without the double side rails, and uses the NRS Top Cat w/ yoke dimensions since NRS is kind enough to give specs on all there parts and frames, and they have decades of experience building them. As for fitting all this pipe together I researched every fitting I could and settled on what DRE uses, Hollaender speed rail fittings. Instead of trying to bend pipe for drop rails and top frame corners I decided to use 90 degree elbows as aluminum is difficult to bend even though it can be done elbows are just easier. The frame will also have a drop down support from the middle crossbar to the drop bars so that the drop bars are supported front, middle, back. My Inside rails are 39 1/2" but also adjustable side to side should i choose since drop rails are mounted with tee's that slide on cross bars, this way i can accommodate cooler/dry box size with my tube size.

120" Long, 72" Wide, Drop Bars 120" long with 11 1/8 drop from top frame.

Pipe - Using 120" side rails there was no way I was shipping them here for a decent price, local metal shop worked with me on a price and I was able to get 1 1/4" SCH 40 6063 Aluminum pipe for 2.90 a foot, while not anodized it is a significant discount compared to NRS's same pipe at $6.00 a foot. I needed 99' and being that it is sold in 20' lengths I had them make 1 cut in each 20' at a length I needed for my frame so that I could transport them. They charge 2.00 a cut and I needed to make at least 20 cuts so I purchased a large pipe cutter at Home Depot for $23.00.

Fittings - Fittings are not cheap unless you know how to shop online. For the 1 1/4" Tee fitting they typically sell between $11.00 and $17.00. I calculated that I would need 28 tee fittings, and at that price it would still be cheaper than buying a new frame but not by a great deal. I found a website called Zoro.com, they listed these same tee fitting for $5.39, half the cost of anyone else I could find. Zoro has the worst reviews of any website and through my research I found out they are owned by Grainger Industrial Supply and that they wholesale. I took the leap of faith and rode there ass until my stuff shipped because the reviews where horrible about products shipping. Finally they shipped and arrived in the right quantity and part #. So go Zoro because you saved me roughly $150 Bucks.

Since Hollaender fittings are snugged up with set screws it is imperative that you use safety pins so that if a set screw comes out, your frame doesn't fall apart. The fittings I ordered since not from DRE do not come pre drilled for a 5/16" Pin, so i had to drill a hole in all the fitting where my crossbars attached and drop bars attached so that frame would stay together.

The Meat and Potatoes -

100' 1 1/4 Pipe - $290
26 x 1 1/4 Tee - $140.14
8 x 1 1/4 Elbow - $53.04
32 x 5/16 Pins - $32.52

Total - 515.07

Thats a far cry from virtually the same DRE frame for $1500 ' ish dollars. Im looking into getting pipe anodized locally and waiting on estimate for that. but in order to get it powder coated I would be looking at $2-$3 a foot from what I was Quoted so somewhere around $200 to $300, still alot of savings.

All in all I would recommend building your own frame, there is alot you can do with customizing and making frames modular. Amazon sells for $15 for 2 round bars that fits inside the 1 1/4" pipe perfectly so that you can make your own breakdown rails like NRS offers making modular bays for multi day and day trips easier. Side note, I went with 1 1/4 because DRE and NRS make accessories for this size pipe, had I gone with 1 1/5" like DRE uses I wouldn't be able to outfit my frame with any NRS frame parts or accessories should I ever find a good deal on them.

Hope this helps someone like me that spent alot of hours planning this and shopping this out. I will also continue to post progress pics and end results as I am almost done but not quite.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
Thanks for putting the costs and such on paper for us to study and learn from. Just a suggestion. You should keep track of your labor in hours from the time you started pricing everything, down to time of completion.

Example. I use to use a basic formula of material costs x2 to come up with a total bid price to give a customer. Then I would track actual hours of labor to see if I made money or lost money on the job at hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ive easily got 15 hrs into researching and sourcing materials, and will have I imagine 12+ into setting it up how I would like it and cutting things to length. However I enjoy the hobby of it and being that it is for personal gain and I have the time off to do it without plans it works well. Like master-card says..... priceless.
 

·
$5 shower
Joined
·
76 Posts
Appreciate this post.

Can you link to the amazon tubing which enables the construction of the breakdown rails?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
649 Posts
My suggestion on nrs yokes is to not make the bend from top rail to to floor out of one piece. That is the one problem l find in nrs cat frames. The yokes rub the hell out of your tubes in these four places. That bend should be welded onto a strait piece of pipe the same lenght as the other top rails. I have told nrs this but they do not listen. The yokes are not on the same plane as the rest of the top rails and if your tubes have any rocker the yokes will be the most point of contact and put more pressure on the tubes and chafe them hard. I have three cat boats and have built multiple frames and own three nrs frames.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
Ive easily got 15 hrs into researching and sourcing materials, and will have I imagine 12+ into setting it up how I would like it and cutting things to length. However I enjoy the hobby of it and being that it is for personal gain and I have the time off to do it without plans it works well. Like master-card says..... priceless.
Thanks for your calculations. I'm one of those weird people that like to see if it is worth my time to try and build or just pay someone else to do it for me. In this case, hands down, it is worth building your own. Plus you've saved the rest of us a bunch of time by using your research hours to our advantage. Can't wait to see your final product. Good luck. :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thank you for pointing that out, I will be fiddling with the length (currently 120") once my new tubes come in and can take in account the rocker height difference so I can achieve even wear. Yokes are to expensive for me currently so I will also be using the drop rails so i should have less contact at front and back of frame on the tubes as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
This is great, but to add to your meat and potatoes you still need a floor and oar towers and about 200$ in straps just to get her on the water, and of course oars. good luck with the rest of your build!
 

·
Sponsoring Vendors
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
Solid work. Way to get yourself on the water! Are you going to use NRS towers or do you have a different plan? If you wanted to go the hollaender route for a tower fitting I think AAA made an upright with cast fitting for 1-1/4". Get on it quick as I think they are about out of biz. If you can't get a hold of them I may know a guy with an extra set if you wanted them.

I see those poor JPW tubes in the garage. That era of jacks tubes is definitely dying. Probably a good choice to upgrade rather than fighting the losing battle with them.

Absolutely not trying to piss in your wheaties but saying its virtually the same as a DRE Deso XD is not a fair statement. Don't get me wrong, its going to work well for you, but doing your cost analysis against what you would spend/get with a Deso XD isn't quite the same.

Again, way to take the initiative and make sure you get yourself on the water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Boyscout, your frame is coming along nicely. One thing to consider is that to my eye as a cat boater, those drop bars look too long and with much of a load you may be dragging gear in the water. I suspect that the depth was determined by the Canyon cooler. Just a heads up that after some field testing you may decide that you need to cut down the vertical drop bars. You really don't want to be dragging gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I went with NRS towers because they are so widely available, also i think there is less chance they will rotate on me ever and wont damage my pipe if they do rotate. And yes you are correct it isnt the same, I Don't have the double rails with diamond plate nor do I have the seat or anodizing but its close, call it a hybrid if you will.

And yes I built the drop around the canyon cooler at 13.5" but I have since realized it will be dragging in the water... especially loaded. So I'm going to cut the drop bars to 11.5" and then shim the cooler up so i can still add a floor.
 

·
Sponsoring Vendors
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
NRS is definitely more available, and you won't have to take half of it apart to get them on. Sounds like a good call.

You might think about putting the floor just under the captains feet. The bays with boxes/coolers/bags don't really need a floor. You'll save money and weight. You could put the drop rails right next to the bottom of that cooler; it looks like there is room on either side. No need to shim. It looks like that would give you a few inches less drop which would put you out of the water with a decent load. Once you start plowing water the performance of the boat really goes to shit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,689 Posts
You were right-on with regard to "pinning" critical junctions of a totally "fittings" frame. I use stainless or galvinized bolts with lock nuts on frames (instead of pins) because it is a rare day that a typical frame owner disassembles and then field assembles a frame. I know situations exist where owners take their frame "sticks" out to the river bank, assemble, mount and launch, but, boy that would suck.

Bent and swedged 90 degree corners are worth considering. They are more expensive but more structurally suited to frame integrity, I think.

I've not gone with NRS fittings only because my frames have always been "HD" vs "LD"(heavy duty vs light duty)(1.5" vs 1.25"). If ever I go to a LD frame, which is in my future, I will use NRS 90's and towers but stick with bent and swedged corners. I've discussed with my favorite machining innovator Earl W creating fittings and towers similar to NRS for HD tubing but retirement took precedence.

As noted and you recognize, you need to shallow your draft; your drops. As noted, you likely need not worry about shallowing the draft of your cooler. It seems to fit between your drop tubes.

I may be old and feeble but I hate a lap/face full of cold water on a cold day. While you may not want a "full" solid decked floor there are ways to add soft floors that prevent rude lap and face fulls of cold water.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,381 Posts
I shimmed my canyon like this with self sticking Velcro and pvc, 4 years ago,
still holding together. This allowed me to adjust height with different diameter pvc. A 2x2 board would work also. I can still use the built in tie down slots.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
99% Done

I had the last week off and was able to really get it together as far as clear coating my aluminum pipe and doing the wood work for floor and decks. It has come together really well and I couldn't be more exited to get it on the water. When i have some time i will try and post the cost of doing it with the understanding that i am not figuring my labor into it as it would have made the cost astronomically high. The only thing i haven't put in is a sink so i can wash my hands in light of recent events.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,689 Posts
Funny you mention the sink. Seconds ago I sent an email to Zach S recommending setting up a DRE hand wash station at the entrance of the store. This was because Peg and I noticed that a Nordic Ski shop in Boulder is sending patrons to the restroom to wash hands when they enter.

Hey, since DRE has such a nifty hand wash station why not put it "front and center" and promote it during these times. Or is the concept of of discussing retailing now kinda sinful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,689 Posts
Boyscout, that is a nice looking rig.

The first picture left me thinking that more people hang their boats in the garage then I realized. A friend of mine does and its a great idea I think. Then I realized, nobody starches there drop bags that much.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top