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Discussion Starter #1
How does Brown's compare to the Upper and Lower Eagle in terms of difficulty and length? It's been years since I have been down Brown's (And that was mostly as a passenger), so I am trying to guage both time and difficulty against something I know pretty well.

From what I have read, Brown's is mostly class III. I remember Zume Flume very well, how can you not I guess. Remembering it is one thing, running it another. LOL I recognize some of the other rapids and vaguely remember them. Is it roughly equivalent? A bit more difficult?
 

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I've only paddled the Upper Eagle once, but I think it is probably a bit more continuous and less technical than Brown's. Dowd Chute is way longer than Zoom, but similar difficulty otherwise. Personally, I would choose Brown's every time for fun factor.
 

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I agree that Brown's is more fun and technical than the UE. That said, I sure as hell wouldn't want to swim Dowd. The thought scares the shit out of me. That's a long ass run.
 

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Yeah dowd is a shitty swim. It was @ 3.5' on the sitck today Im sayn 5' by this weekend. when the shoot is @ 6' the upper eagle is a blast all the way to edwards. however, completely different river than the ark wider not as deep less swirly more rock dodgn.
 

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How would a 16 footer fit on upper/lower eagle? I get it down Browns pretty easy above 1000, 750 is a little rough.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
...upper eagle is a blast all the way to edwards. however, completely different river than the ark wider not as deep less swirly more rock dodgn...
You're saying the Eagle is wider, shallower and less swirly than the Arkansas or the other way around? I assume I got it right, because the eagle isn't that deep anywhere! LOL

I should have clarified my original post too. I will be rafting it in a 14' oar setup. back in the day when my dad and I used to do it all the time, we were in a bit smaller oar setup (12' if I recall correctly). VERY fun in a raft that size.

I should also clarify my definition of Upper Eagle, given I am rafting in a 14 footer. I don't run the whole thing, only from Avon to Edwards. I am told (and believe it from what I have seen of it) that Dowd is not a plce to take an oar rig... LOL Never done Dowd, but want to one of these days (when I get some paddles and people to put on the smart end of those paddles).

Nicho - the 16' would be fine on the lower Eagle for sure, probably the Upper too at higher flows. We went with a friend that had one up there last year of that size on the Lower. I'd probably wait for higher flows in a raft that size (it was over 2,000 cfs when we went last year with the guy in the 16 footer), but it's probably not too bad even at these flows if it's not loaded up too much. We went last weekend in my 14' raft - Avon to Eagle County Fairgrounds - and scraped a few rocks here and there, dodged the rest pretty easily. The upper is a bit more rock dodging than the lower, but it's also a bit more continuous action (and shorter). It's a pretty wide river in most places, so there is room to manuever in most places.
 

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I was with a group with a 16 footer this past weekend. It made it down the upper eagle with no problem. Porkchop has it right just different types of river. Brown is more we are coming up on "XYZ" rapid where the Eagle is more consistent water with more rock dodging.
 

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I should also clarify my definition of Upper Eagle, given I am rafting in a 14 footer. I don't run the whole thing, only from Avon to Edwards. I am told (and believe it from what I have seen of it) that Dowd is not a plce to take an oar rig... LOL Never done Dowd, but want to one of these days (when I get some paddles and people to put on the smart end of those paddles).

Nicho - the 16' would be fine on the lower Eagle for sure, probably the Upper too at higher flows. We went with a friend that had one up there last year of that size on the Lower. I'd probably wait for higher flows in a raft that size (it was over 2,000 cfs when we went last year with the guy in the 16 footer), but it's probably not too bad even at these flows if it's not loaded up too much. We went last weekend in my 14' raft - Avon to Eagle County Fairgrounds - and scraped a few rocks here and there, dodged the rest pretty easily. The upper is a bit more rock dodging than the lower, but it's also a bit more continuous action (and shorter). It's a pretty wide river in most places, so there is room to manuever in most places.
Done Dowd Chutes in a 12' and 16' oar rig cat. Great fun from 900 cfs to 4900 cfs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Done Dowd Chutes in a 12' and 16' oar rig cat. Great fun from 900 cfs to 4900 cfs.
Really? I have to keep that in mind then. Let me make it down Brown's first though. LOL

The other reason I haven't even considered Dowd's is that when I do the Eagle, I usually have my kids with me. I am comfortable with it at low to moderate flows that I can take them along. Dowd, not so much a kid friendly run. LOL

And no, I am not taking the kids on Brown's. Just a brave friend of mine...
 

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The ARK is on!

The Ark is starting to pump! Numbers hit 1300 today with Browns over 1500. I expect flows to jump quite a bit with how hot it has been With any luck flows will be between 2000 and 3000 by the weekend! WOOO! HOOO! It took us 6.5 hrs to run 26 miles today in training. Tommorow we are going to do Numbers to Stone Bridge for 32 miles!
 

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My opinion with current flows (kayaked both countless times, rafted14' both many times).

Eagle- Avon to Edwards at 2200 cfs is somewhat serious business. You cannot let go of the oars and mess around at all (literally maybe 3-4 locations). Continous and fun the whole way. Technical IV- rafting (III+ kayak). There are holes and bends everywhere.

Brown's even at 2000 cfs is more big river feel., pool drop rapids. If you line it up properly you just straighline it and countercorrect...no moves to really make.

Purdue-U...you will be fine if you have the constant maneuvering on the Eagle down. Upper Eagle is way underrated for rafting, it takes some skills.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, I went ahead and did Brown's Canyon yesterday - twice. :D

I found a lot of what everyone said to be true - thanks for all of the input. It really wan't quite as difficult as I imagined it might be (at 2100 cfs if the gal at Hecla had the flows right). I did find there was a bit of rock dodging, similar to the Eagel, but it was more impotant to dodge the giant boulders and holes of course! LOL The swirling currents were definitely a different feel the first time down, but easy enough to get used to and account for.

The only real surprise was how short it was. I didn't recall it being so short! We were at Zume Flume before we knew it, and by the time we hit Hecla, I couldn't believe it was already over. We got out, debated for a few minutes, and decided to run it again. The second time through, we parked at Stone Bridge so we could run Seidel's, at the encouragement of the gal counting boats at Hecla and a commercial driver. I am so glad we did, that was a fun, but Twin Falls was even more fun IMO. Not much after that of course, but it made for a longer trip, and if I am going to spend 6 hours in the car, I better get close to that on the river!

Anyway, great fun, brought back a lot of memories of my Dad and I rafting it every summer years ago. Thanks again everyone for the input.
 
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