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sorry but heres another new guy question. bought the diesal 75 last year when i started kayaking. im 5'3'' ( on a good day ) 155lbs. ive worked on my roll alot and alot of the time i didnt wear any gear, just my skirt when i was practicing and rolled it well. the other day i was trying to roll with all my gear on and had a lot of trouble. the first couple i could hit but they felt slow. after that i couldnt get it to go over that last little part to finish it off.when i can get a paddle on the river bottom no problem rolling there. also went out and ferried for about an hour pretty easy stuff, but the next day i felt like i did 300 situps. is the diesal to large for me or is this another case of keep practicing.
 

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I am 5' 4 ½" and weigh in at a healthy 140lbs. I consider any boat with 75gals to big for me. The exception was a Micro X that I learned how to kayak on. But that boat was a creeker that was designed for smaller people and had 80 gals, give or take. Now I boat in a 28gal squirt boat, 45gal river running boat, and a 60 gal creek boat. The biggest problem with most boats for us vertically challenged, is that the cockpit rim is too damn high. With a high rim, I have a tough time getting the paddle flat on the surface to do my roll. Also, a lot of boats have a lot of volume in the cockpit area, contributing to the high cockpit. Having the volume at the cockpit contributes to the difficulty as it is tough for me to reach over. After I realized what the trouble was, I started looking for boats that had smaller cockpits.
 

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Could be lots of things...

Could be any number of things by my estimate:

1. You could be out of shape (I know I am!)
2. You could be getting sloppy on your roll and not even know it.
3. Your outfitting could be loose or poorly fitted to you
4. The boat size MIGHT be affecting you.

Honestly from what you report I would say boat size is down the list a ways. Really make sure you are using sound fundamentals on your roll and paddle strokes. The pain is a good thing it means you are using muscles repeatedly which will eventually strengthen them. Customize the crap out of your outfitting until it feels like home, use duct tape, closed cell foam, an old pair of socks, whatever, just make sure it works right. Nothing is more frustrating than having outfitting issues while on the river.
 

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Not sure if you're a girl or a guy, but I am 5' 9" (girl) and the Diesel feels like I am hugging a (large) bear too! Cockpit is REALLY high, I think all of the comments from Snowhere seemed dead nuts right on. Find some pals with other boats (yeah, I know Tucson..I have pals in PHX), and work on your roll mechanics. You may find the Diesel is your creeker, big volume boat....but you might like a different boat for day-to-day river running. Come over to the Kern Fest (April 19/20) and jump in everything you can find there. Its a breezy 8-10 hours, but I can find you other Zonies to ride with.
Hang in there, and no ferries should not feel that bad.

KJ
 

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Discussion Starter #5
im a guy in good shape. as far as the outfitting goes my knees are pointed out at a 45 degree angle if not more. i swear i could sit cross legged in the thing. even with my hips padded in so much it hurt it did not correct the problem.
 

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Not sure if you're a girl or a guy, but I am 5' 9" (girl) and the Diesel feels like I am hugging a (large) bear too! Cockpit is REALLY high, I think all of the comments from Snowhere seemed dead nuts right on. Find some pals with other boats (yeah, I know Tucson..I have pals in PHX), and work on your roll mechanics. You may find the Diesel is your creeker, big volume boat....but you might like a different boat for day-to-day river running. Come over to the Kern Fest (April 19/20) and jump in everything you can find there. Its a breezy 8-10 hours, but I can find you other Zonies to ride with.
Hang in there, and no ferries should not feel that bad.

KJ
i was wondering how long till the word zonie would pop up. gonna change my name to the swimminzonie :D
 

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Were going to head up to the salt Sunday if you want to try my Inazone it feels small on me (but I'm 40lbs fatter). It might help you find out if its the Indian or the arrow. Besides we zonies gotta stick together.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
snowhere i think youre right on with what you said. very expensive lesson to learn. diesal 65 would have been the right size fo' sure. rideon ive messed with the outfitting alot. i padded the hips so much it hurt to no avail. i really hate to make excuses but i think this boats just a bit to big for me. one more thing is that with the seat all the way forward and the knee braces all the way back my right knee comes out very easily. or it feels like im barely catching the knee brace. no need beating a dead horse here so im done posting on this one. thanks for the info everyone and to all thinking of buying a kayak, try before you buy!!!
 

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alright if you need to be higher than i suggest a little bit of foam under your butt. it will rise you that extra 1/2" or 1". by the way i paddle a jefe with 76 gal so it shouldn't be a problem for you. you need to work the abs more obviously so keep on working. the foam under the butt should help. im 5'11 165 which is about the same as you also paddle agent 6.2
 

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I honestly don't see how boat size can effect your roll (if you have a good roll) as long as your outfitting is snug.. I am 195 and can hand roll the mega rocker(93gal) with little effort, and my 110 pound daughter learned her roll in the diesel 65..
I am not saying the boat is right or wrong just that with good technique you should be able to roll any boat..
 

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Are you bringing your head up too fast? That's usually the reason it won't roll. Sometimes I get sloppy and forget that.
 

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there's so much more to rolling than just keeping your head down. so i say get somebody thats nows how to roll to watch all aspects of your roll.

torso roatation, blade angle, hips, head.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I honestly don't see how boat size can effect your roll (if you have a good roll) as long as your outfitting is snug.. I am 195 and can hand roll the mega rocker(93gal) with little effort, and my 110 pound daughter learned her roll in the diesel 65..
I am not saying the boat is right or wrong just that with good technique you should be able to roll any boat..

are the cockpits the same on the 65 and 75? i honestly dont know. or is the 65 tighter? knee braces in more seat more forward etc.
 

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alright if you need to be higher than i suggest a little bit of foam under your butt. it will rise you that extra 1/2" or 1". by the way i paddle a jefe with 76 gal so it shouldn't be a problem for you. you need to work the abs more obviously so keep on working. the foam under the butt should help. im 5'11 165 which is about the same as you also paddle agent 6.2
No offense caspermike, but comparing yourself at 5'11" to someone that is 5'3" just flat wrong. I can guarantee that you have a lot more reach in your arms and your upper torso is a lot larger. For someone smaller, boat size can play a huge part in how you kayak. When I started yaking in 93, I was talked into buying a eurokayak chipher by a shop owner. He was about as clueless about what would be good for me as he was also 6' tall. That boat was 80 gallons and since I am light, I could not displace enough water. As a result the chines that were supposed to be at the waterline, were 4 inches above the water. Being a beginner, it took me two years of fighting that boat, getting nowhere, then I attended a Demo day on the Ark. After trying a couple of boats, it was obvious that the MicroX was a much better boat for me. Just like you would find my squirt boat impossible due to your size, large volume boats can be impossible for us smaller paddlers.:cool:
 

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I wouldn't rule out the possibility that boat fit might not be ideal, but based on what you're saying, it doesn't sound like that's why you're not rolling. You said you can roll fine without your gear on, but when you gear up (drytop, pfd, helmet) you have trouble. You've also implied that your muscles are working more with your gear on.

I think your gear is modifying your roll form. I know I feel a little discombobulated the first time I try to roll with my gear on in a new season. I think it has you positioning your body and arms in a different manner because it doesn't feel the same as when you only have a skirt on. The new position probably has you working different muscles as well, and perhaps trying to work harder because you're softening your upper body properly. Yes, there's a little more drag through the water if helmet & vest, but not enough that it would cause your roll to fail unless you were just barely making it up before.

I suggest practicing with your vest and helmet and go back to fundamentals and not worry too much about your boat. People with a good roll can usually roll all kinds of ill fitting boats. Also, I recommend avoiding the habit of pushing off the bottom. Developing that habit puts your shoulders at risk.

sorry but heres another new guy question. bought the diesal 75 last year when i started kayaking. im 5'3'' ( on a good day ) 155lbs. ive worked on my roll alot and alot of the time i didnt wear any gear, just my skirt when i was practicing and rolled it well. the other day i was trying to roll with all my gear on and had a lot of trouble. the first couple i could hit but they felt slow. after that i couldnt get it to go over that last little part to finish it off.when i can get a paddle on the river bottom no problem rolling there. also went out and ferried for about an hour pretty easy stuff, but the next day i felt like i did 300 situps. is the diesal to large for me or is this another case of keep practicing.
 

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I think you should go hit some rolls in an eddy or lake. Bring a friend for T-rescue, or have some one near by who will act if you need help. You will learn quickly how to roll with your gear on. Focus on your set up, INITIATE your roll. You will roll, it just takes effort now, soon you will get sronger. it becomes easyer, Do madd rolls, no bad habits, both sides, scull with your gear on. Check your outfitting, a good idea is to get in your boat with shorts on and snug your outfitting, then get out put on your gear and get back in. Retighten and that is how you want to feel going down river. It should seem tighter. as you boat you will losen your outfitting so feel free to tighten it on the river. Sit up higher in the boat by putting 1" foam under your seat.
 

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If you're feeling the cockpit rim is high on the Diesel. Try a used H3. Every pyranha boat I get in I feel like I'm on a skyscrapper (I'm 6'2). So it may be more to your advantage. And it has plenty of volume.
 

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Yes that boat is to big for you.
List it here on the swap site and get a 65 if you like the 75.

Boat size will make a big difference to some people depending on the build of that person.
My self I am 5'10'' 240. I should be able to roll any boat out there. Put me I a LL Hoss and i miss 50% of them put me in the big Mamba and I can roll it like a ball.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think you should go hit some rolls in an eddy or lake. Bring a friend for T-rescue, or have some one near by who will act if you need help. You will learn quickly how to roll with your gear on. Focus on your set up, INITIATE your roll. You will roll, it just takes effort now, soon you will get sronger. it becomes easyer, Do madd rolls, no bad habits, both sides, scull with your gear on. Check your outfitting, a good idea is to get in your boat with shorts on and snug your outfitting, then get out put on your gear and get back in. Retighten and that is how you want to feel going down river. It should seem tighter. as you boat you will losen your outfitting so feel free to tighten it on the river. Sit up higher in the boat by putting 1" foam under your seat.

i tried all of that. foam under the seat, t-rescue in the eddie, took all the slack out of my back brace to get every inch forward i could, sat there under water and tried to get perfect form on the roll, i could get the boat just about over but would have to slap the water with my paddle to get it to come all the way over. great ideas though. its not conditioning, im in shape. i think snowhere is right on. im gonna demo alot since i have an idea now what i need. i need a lower volume boat for the smaller deck and cockpit, they arent as wide etc...
 
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