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Discussion Starter #1
Where is the best place to get a raft oar-rig for a 2 day trip down the upper-Colorado? I'd be nice if it was between Denver and Kremmling for convenience. I'd also be nice if it didn't const too much. I really don't think it's worth $250 for a two day raft rental. Does anyone have one I could borrow for about $100 or possibly trade for something?
 

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AAA and Alpenglow Mountainsports are the only places I know of in the Denver area that rent rafts. Check with them. If you can find a stranger that'l let you borrow about $3K (VERY minimal replacement value) worth of oar rig gear for $100, all the better.

--Andy
 

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For $100, I'll let you borrow my Animas and you can tie that to your Cerro and that's a lot like a raft. You could use play boats for outriggers, too.
 

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Andy H. said:
If you can find a stranger that'l let you borrow about $3K (VERY minimal replacement value) worth of oar rig gear for $100, all the better.

--Andy
:lol: ahh, sarcasm...

renting is sickeningly expensive and good inspiration to just buy a boat.

There are places to rent livery type rafts for $50 a day... but not in colorado.

BOC123.com rents hysides up in boulder,as well.

also, remember you need to have a credit card to put a $3k or more deposit. I don't think they charge it until you steal it or lose the raft though.

Like i said...renting sucks! Buy a used one and you'll go more,too. and far less hassle.
 

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First, Bigboater please accept my sincere apology for being sarcastic. Second, I don't mean anything negative or harsh about your abilities, sense of responsibility, or knowledge - I'm just stating something here that a lot of kayakers may not be aware of and that other rafters will agree with:

Many rafters are pretty particular even about letting someone they know rig their boat if they're not right there directing, much less loan a stranger their boat with all the gear that comes with an oar rig. There are lots of components to an oar rig, large and small, but usually expensive, to get lost or damaged.

Consider straps, for example. I've got about 15 straps that live on my oarframe and each one has a place and serves some purpose during a trip. Then there are about 15 - 20 more in the strap bag (nicely organized thanks to ZBaird's killer strap tree!) that can come out on overnight trips to lash gear into the boat. They each cost about $5 or $6 on average. It seems like its just a fact of life that after big trips you find a couple missing and sometimes there will even be one or two foreign ones in your gear, though they usually disappear - just like socks in the dryer but more costly to replace.

There are only a few folks that I'd want fully rigging or rowing my raft and they're mostly other rafters & even then only as a last resort. Once while preparing to launch I asked someone who I'd boated with plenty to undo the straps holding the boat to the trailer while I undid my side, then came around and discovered that the frame had also been undone. Another time I got to dress a 48-stitch wound because someone had set up the "pins and clips" oar towers on their friend's boat incorrectly.

I'm not trying to be harsh, just stating what I've seen.

--Andy
 

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heh,heh,heh...AndyH, I thought your sarcasm was pretty damn funny personally and that you hit the nail on the head. I'd lend my raft to 3 people in the world...my dad, brother and a long time ,trusted friend of 15 years. That's it.

anyway,bigboater, good luck and hopefully you'll find some people to split the rental fees with.

And,bb, on buying a used raft... I'm on my 5th used raft now and when it came time to sell the first 4 I've always broken even or even made money on them even after a year or so of heavy use. Beats pissing away $250-700 a pop for extended trips, for sure. Something to think about,anyway.
 

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Yeah, my first couple of rafts were used, and I wouldn't recommend anything but a cheap used raft and gear for someone just getting into the lifestyle. Its just plain stupid to make an investment like that unless you've got more money than time to hunt the good bargains. With some luck as the season winds down, or next spring, you may be able to find a decent used SB with oars and frame for about $1,500 to $2K (then you'll spend another $500 on straps & other gear...). Check the swaps at the raft shops, Alpenglow's swap has lots of gear but usually the others only have used rubber. 14 foot's a good size for Colorado boating if you want to do overnights in style though lots of folks like smaller boats.

SYOTR,

--Andy
 

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Rafts for Sale

Gentlemen -
Oue entire fleet of demo rafts went on sale today. AIRE self bailing 14'3" & 16'5"'s for $2600 (rubber only) We also have 3 & 4 bay frames from DRE for $500-$600 as well as everything else you may need to rig her. They're this years rigs so minimal wear and tear and NO patches.

Mark
Alpenglow
303/277-0133
 

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Don't listen to Andy steer you towards a little boat. Unless you plan to paddle it down bony stuff with out gear alot, get a gear hauling pig. Mark said they have the Aire 16-5. I bet he means the 156. I think that is the smallest boat you should consider for hauling gear. I saw their stack a few weeks ago and they were in nice shape.
 

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now that the topic has changed to what size, dont listen to dave. he seems to have the need to haul mass amounts of shit even on small trips, hence his need for a pig. a 14' is the perfect all around for CO. it is small enough to be fun on the ark down low and big enough to run the grand if you get invited. sure you cant haul quite as much gear but man, a 16'er is heavy and really starts to suck on the ark at low water (sub 800) and is just flat out not as fun at any time unless you are running big shit ( grand, middlefork at flood etc.). you cant run clear creek, or anything small and it is a drag even in the numbers. if you want to run mainly long multidays with tons of gear go with a 16. if you want to run only small overnighters for 3 or 4 and mostly day trips go with a 12 or 14. most of the time i'd like to be in my 12'. without way overloading my 12' i can support a passenger and 4 or 5 kayaks on an overnight westy trip, and man is it fun as an r-2 raft as well. in my opinion we just dont have big enough water, or riverbeds here to facilitate the need for a 16'.
 

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Bigboater--get a canoe and do it proper. Who needs a raft? Lewis and Clark ran some shit in pirouges. I've seen you canoe, you've got the skills...
 

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Resist the Dark Side, Zach!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Alright. To clear a couple of things up. I am not "trying to get into the lifestyle." I have been "in the lifestyle" for 15 years.

I am not going to buy a 12 foot, a 14 foot, or a 16 foot, because I would use it once a year max. Come on, I can't even fork out $250. I would much rather be creeking. I just simply want to take my poor aging parents down a nice leisure float trip and try to give them a tiny window into "the lifestyle" of my life. I would like to repay my dad for all of the adventures he took me on as a wee lad.

Hartje, I would much rather have an OC. But, this isn't for me. If it was, I would just jam my behemoth of a kayak full of gear and go brave the mighty upper-C.....if I had nothing better to do. On a side note, if I find a good deal on an OC I would love to buy it.

Thank you Andy for pushing any undecided raft owners over the edge :roll: I'm glad you guys could use this opportunity to talk about the length of your rubber.

Thanks Alpenglow for offering me a reasonable deal (seriously it was one of the better deals I found), but I'm not going to pay all of the fare (unless I can work most of it off or something) because I won't even be in the raft, and I'm sure my parents don't have that kind of money laying around to blow in a weekend.

I guess we'll just have to go to Garden of the Gods, and Focus on the Family museum for the weekend. I can't wait. :cry:
 

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bigboater said:
Thank you Andy for pushing any undecided raft owners over the edge :roll: I'm glad you guys could use this opportunity to talk about the length of your rubber.


I guess we'll just have to go to Garden of the Gods, and Focus on the Family museum for the weekend. I can't wait. :cry:
bigboater=bigdick...

screw you,buddy. the dude was just telling it like it is and giving advice.

Enjoy the museum. 8===D
 

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So yeah, Bigboater, lets clear a couple of things up. When you ask a bunch of people that don't know you from Adam if you can borrow someone's raft to run some whitewater (even lame-o Class II), its kind of like saying "I can't drive but I can mountain bike really well. Is there a stranger out there that can loan me his car so I can drive my folks around in the mountains for the weekend? I'll gas it up, change the oil, and give you a 12-pack for it."

So the first impulse was to laugh in your face but I gave you the benefit of the doubt and answered you post with where you may be able to rent a boat & later elaborated a bit on why it is that you're not likely to have much luck scrounging around to borrow someone's raft. Lots of kayakers don't understand how gear-intensive rafting is - I understand that you didn't actually realize what you were asking of folks and tried to be gracious and say so with how I prefaced and closed my post to you. And now I'm trying to figure this one out - you've say you've been boating for 15 years but you still don't know how rafters are about their rigs or know anyone with a raft to try to borrow from first. Hmmm.

Then you got all pissy and whiny about what I said, and how Dave and Zach got off topic from your original question (like that's never happened on the Buzz) and, insult of insults, how we actually suggested that you would actually consider going out and picking up a cheap raft, giving you some helpful info just in case you were interested.

And after your show of being hurt and bitchy, you're telling BKP to have a sense of humor after he read your whiny post with the little eyes rolling and making complaints about how you can't afford even the deal at Alpeglow. So lets see - you don't have the bucks to throw down on a rental raft to show your aging parents a slice of your greatest passion in life, but in the same post you're saying that if you could get a good deal on an OC, you'd snap it up. Not only that, but instead of connecting with your folks and being on the raft with them, you're going to be in your kayak paddling while someone else (who?) rows the raft you've borrowed from some kind & generous stranger.

So lets say some kind rafter thinks he'll be loaning his boat to someone that at least knows river hydraulics and how to read water, knowing you'll flail a bit, bang up the oars some & run into some rocks. But that's not the plan is it? Are you going to give your aging dad the oars and say "just follow me, its only Class II water, because after all, any idiot can row a raft so you'll do just fine! Don't worry, its just a big rubber toy and I'm giving the guy $100 anyway!" Sounds like a great way to spend quality time with the folks. I'm sure you could show them some pretty slick moves in the kayak as your terrified, aging folks are flailing & bouncing off the rocks through Needle's Eye or Yarmony.

So maybe your dad was running the Grand in '66 or you used to guide on Cataract, or a rafter friend will be along with you to row but I don't think so and you didn't say anything about it.

OK, I'm done venting, here are some other possibilities on behalf of your folks:

1) You could take them for a walk some beautiful place like Eldorado Canyon where there's a boatable creek and talk about your passion.

2) You could get an outfitter to take them on a half day Upper C trip and paddle along with them. This may be cheaper than the good deal on an OC and at least a competent oarsman would be taking them down the river. And you could show off your paddling skills.

3) You could just get the cheaper paddle boat package from Alpenglow and guide them yourself, using J-strokes when you have to.

4) You could put a polite post explaining your situation on the High Country River Rafters or Pikes Peak River Runners forums asking if someone would be able to take your folks down Pumphouse if you buy them a new oar or slide them $100. There are lots of nice folks in those groups who don't feel like they've got to be out running the gnar every weekend, and someone may be willing to take them along out of the goodness of their heart.

5) You could face the fact that your parent's aren't going to be able to do this much longer, quit whining about your money situation, and rent the raft from Alpenglow. At least you'll get the pickup and dropoff days free and don't have to scramble getting to the river and back. Then row the boat yourself, talk and connect with the folks, tell them about the flora and fauna, the environment where you bathe your soul. Bring a nice lunch & plenty of sodas and water, have some quality time with your folks while they're here. And don't tell them about the hairy stuff like your close calls, pins, and rescues you've been involved in because that'll just worry them. Just don't assume that you'll be a master oarsman just because you're a hotshit hairball kayaker who's been boating for 15 years. It may not be as intuitive as you may think so talk to the folks at Alpenglow that know how to both kayak and raft about what to expect and how to make the transition.

6) You can whine and complain about how you can't afford to share with them the place your soul finds solace while they're here, and go to the museum. After you flame me.

Think about what you really want to do while they're here.

Good luck,

--Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Easy there, I was making fun of myself as much as you. I openly admitted that I was cheep. My parents are not that old, and I have no intention of going to Focus on the Family museum (at least again). I was exaggerating. I really don't care that you guys were debating the ideal length for a raft in Colorado. It was a good opportunity to make a little raft pun. I personally found the discussion to be informative. The OC discussion was with a long time friend so you don't need to fight his battles for him. You got to fight your own battles Harjte. The only thing I was serious about in that post was that Alpenglow gave me a good deal, and I am thankful for that. I am sorry it didn't come across the way I intended.

I understand where you are coming from about the whole gear $3000 thing for only $100 to a perfect stranger, but a simple no would have sufficed. My first question was for a good place to rent a raft. Asking if anyone else had one to borrow was just a shot in the dark. You were being sarcastic, so I was being sarcastic back. I was being a big dick just for sport (making fun of myself). That never happens on the Buzz (sarcasm and making fun of you, which no doubt I will need to apologize for in my next post). If I roughed any feathers, you have my sincerest apologies. Go have a beer with bkp77 in big dick's honor (making fun of myself). I will spare you the use of any more rolly eye thingys (making fun of you. I apologize in advance).
 
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