If we are talking bib drypants designed to seal with a compatible drytop I think you have almost nothing to worry about. I searched the AW Accident Database in the detailed descriptions and conclusions for the terms "dry pants" and "drypants" - no results turned up. I know many people who use this set-up. When sealed up properly it is nearly dry, only letting in a few drops of water.http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/account-of-long-swim-28147-3.html#post166457
All I can think of is something along the lines of fishermen drowning in waders. Unless you're staying in Class II, I wouldn't consider it. Pants could get easily dislodged from a seal with one good beat down with a rock. The above example, as mentioned before, would be an example why I wouldn't recommend boating whitewater in such.
I was trying to be polite in my first response, perhaps I was too polite. You are fear mongering since you don't have a factual basis for your fears. I realize you were being sarcastic but there are sadly thousands of cases where people drowned without PFD's every year - it is a well documented fact. I didn't want to respond to this post with only my personal observations (that Dry bibs work just fine and i've seen bad swims with people wearing them) - so I did the search of AW's accident database. Not one result. If your fears were founded there would at least be reports of close calls and probably deaths. There aren't. Futher the product liability of making them if there were deaths linked to them would be huge in our sue happy society. Paddling comapnies don't have the cash to fight these kind of legal battles - they would pull the product.Drypants could get pulled down (I never said anything about a hole) easier in a beatdown, and I did lapse in noticing he was talking about bibs. I was thinking pants, and bibs would be much better. Still, I wouldn't go there, not unless I was staying out of any significant whitewater. It's just not worth it to me. I don't want to get the shit scared out of me/want to quit boating/the shit beat out of me/feel like I almost drowned/cry while boating/drown/etc. The only rationalization that bibs/jacket are OK is that they are cheaper, and that the risk is not high. but really, the risk of drowning is not high (statistically), so why wear a pfd (sarcasm)? So each of us have to decide how far we go to reduce risk, and I wouldn't recommend pants, even bibs, to a friend if they were planning a purchase. Especially if they are boating bigger water where swims are more common/harder/brutal/painful/dangerous.
Are we talking about dry pants or the death penalty???On a side note I think this argument is a sad reflection of where our society is in large. People taking viewpoint's that the facts don't support , and even when presented with clear evidence, they don't even blink, just continue being sure they are right. Frankly it makes me sad. Laura your post makes it sound like fear is controlling your decision making process. Usually you are clear and cogent, here you need to reevaluate. Or finds some facts to share with the group that support your views so we can all learn.
You should see the look you get when you go to a swimming pool in full paddling gear. It's the best way to get comfortable swimming in it, and great cardio - but people look at you like you must be seriously developmentally challenged.I think one day I will pop for a drysuit, but in the mean time, some cardio may be a safe bet.
I always thought the point of safety training was to try take the fear out of the equation, separate the emotion and learn the best way to try to save your buddies life away from real danger. Then in the heat of the moment the fear doesn't control you and lead you into poor decisions. You know what to do becuase you calmy and rationally prepared for the situations you hoped never to face, but always knew you might.Of course this shit is based in fear! .... Most of the time fear is the foundation for safety training/gear/whatever.
I am calling you out, no question. The class II assertion, the no benefit other than price, both of these are patently false. That's not a matter of opinion. Your posts are usually based in reason, if one of our resident "special people" had made the post I wouldn't have bothered responding to it.you've talked shit to me and that's just bullshit. So what if you have a different opinion? There's about 6 billion opinions on this planet, and which one is right?
I agree that post is scary. I've swum class V and that shit is scary, but for the last couple of years I had a mental calm in those places - because of the rescue training and the mental preparation. Yeah the adrenaline is still flowing and the heart racing, but the fear no longer rules me. I think most kayakers find this place earlier on than rafters (or quit kayaking), when they learn to wait for a roll, not to panic just 'cause they didn't hit that first roll. Get a breath, try again, hang in there.The recent "long swim" post is scary shit.
I don't think you are taking things too seriously - I think you are approaching them without intellectual rigor. The number of class V boaters using the combo and the complete and utter lack of accident reports linked to it speak clearly. Frankly I didn't expect this to be the case, I expected that there would have been incidents reported to AW and likely some deaths. The lack thereof is fairly astounding. Again I invite anyone to find contrary information, I am basing my opinion on the best facts I can find, if those change my opinion will follow.Too many people don't take things seriously enough. Big fucking deal if I take them too seriously in your opinion. Go cry yourself a river if your so sad about what I say. Get yourself a mix and match outfit for Class II, maybe lower level III's, fine. Any more than that, I'll recommend to my friends a full suit.
This is a great point. Velcro ankle cuffs let in water. Neoprene waist bands on dry pants (instead of bibs with a tunnel) let in water. If you want drypants you have to get the bib style (with the fold together tunnel thing) with either latex gaskets or socks. Otherwise your pants can fill on occasion.I wore the set up in question Mtn. Surf drypants w/neoprene waistband and velcro ankle cuffs with a drytop with tunnel.It worked fine 99% of the time including a gazillion self rescues ducky surfing,but once the legs filled with water on a swim in solid semi continuous IV,the swim wasn't that bad but trying to pull yourself out on some boulder in a micro eddy was.IN A LONGER SWIM IT COULD HAVE BEEN DISASTEROUS.Having built in booties on something that might leak is moronic.
Was you wife wearing bib dry pants with the tunnel thing folded properly into the drytop (like in the PDF below) and then the neoprene waistband of the drytop cinched down tight over it? Do her ankle gaskets fit properly or does she have latex or gore-tex socks?I'm not a huge fan of drypants....no matter what you have on top....I witnessed my wife's get full up to the knees with a similar dry top/dry pant combo during a swim that lasted about 45 seconds....scared the friggen shit out of me.