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Discussion Starter #1
Can't reply to my old thread I started last year so I need to start a new thread (I guess this board has a no bringing old threads up from the dead feature lol?)

So I'm trying to decide between 14 & 15' wave destroyer.

If you have rowed either - how much more "sporty" or "agile" is the 14 over the 15? Is the 15 a bit more "beasty" to row? Can the 14 competently carry a passenger and/or "some" gear as well as the 15 would? I notice the waterline on the 15 is 9" longer. I've rowed a 16' Aire Jag before which I thought was pretty fun and agile but the 15' WD has a pretty good water line with flatter bottom unlike the Jag which is more of a continuous curve.

Also - I originally had this idea that I would get a 2 man welded frame made by MadCatr but more and more I'm thinking a separate people/cargo module would be better that I could put either in front of me, or behind me, depending on water, etc. Thoughts on either? That way if I was just doing day runs with only myself on the boat I could leave the module at home. Any thought on this? Any thoughts on a way to bolt the cargo module to the main frame or leave it separate and use the D-rings/cam straps to hold it in?


What is the rule of thumb as far as length of tag lines? Is it half the tube length? Are there any products that make better tag lines than others? For the time being I picked up a 4 pack of 8' AIRE cam straps which I was going to cut a bit shorter and use them?

Thanks for your time and input!
 

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The 15WD also has a continuous curve rocker. It's a better choice if your talking about a passenger and don't want a Jag. Seriously Brotha, you need to just pull the trigger on one. You'll be happy with it.
 

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You'll probably love the 15' WD, but it will feel quite a bit smaller than the jag because of the tube diameter.

I use 7' tags on my nose cones and 6' on the sides. I don't like them longer on the side because they can get around the oar. Many people use 9' on the side as flip lines tho, so it is personal preference.
 

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Rowing Bay & Cargo Modules

I originally had this idea that I would get a 2 man welded frame made by MadCatr but more and more I'm thinking a separate people/cargo module would be better that I could put either in front of me, or behind me, depending on water, etc. Thoughts on either? That way if I was just doing day runs with only myself on the boat I could leave the module at home. Any thought on this? Any thoughts on a way to bolt the cargo module to the main frame or leave it separate and use the D-rings/cam straps to hold it in?
I have a rowing bay I use on my 12.5' cat, then I add a cargo module for overnighters. I went this route for low weight on day trips, but I get a lot of 'tail slop' when I use the rowing module only. You can see on the picture that the tails of my tubes are almost touching. There is a video of this flip and you cannot see the tail slop, so it happens quickly. I don't notice this type of tail slop too much, but I notice the up/down slop sometimes. It is probably a bit tough on the boat.

Part of the problem in the pic was that I had the frame toward the front of my cat because I just finished up a couple multi-day trips, took off the cargo module, but did not slide the rowing bay back on the tubes...because I am lazy.

If you get longer tubes, the tail slop will be exaggerated. I would not go with a rowing bay only on anything longer than a 12.5' cat. In fact I think I have my wife talked into an 11' cat with this rowing bay and I would get a Class V frame for the 12.5' cat...after all, I could use another boat:D
 

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Don't confuse spey with more options. The poor guy has been debating between the 14 and 15 for two years. He's looking at a passenger and gear so an 11 or 12 is not going to work for him.

Spey, I have had the 15. IMO it is the best balance between WW playing and the option of adding a passenger and gear.

I now went to the 14 because I wanted a dedicated play boat and it is perfect for that.

I'm out.
 

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Any thoughts on a way to bolt the cargo module to the main frame or leave it separate and use the D-rings/cam straps to hold it.

Can't help you with WS size question, but we have a couple friends with 16' Lions and Jags with 3-piece multi-day frames modules and they just strap them together. You can cross strap the front module to the 3rd d-ring and the rear module to the 2nd d-ring to sort of lock everything in place. Assuming the WS has 8 d-rings per tube that is.

I agree with ob1coby when you're talking about adding a passenger and gear. Bigger tubes will make that multiday trip with a passenger so much more enjoyable.
 

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I had the pleasure of rowing a 14' WD on the lower salmon at lower flows and lightly loaded (150 lbs of gear) and ppl swimming between boats. The boat totally bogged down with just one extra person on board. With Two extra ppl the boat was a log. With just me it ripped it up! Surfed demons and punch china like butter.

If you have to get a WD then 15' IMHO.
 

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I have rowed both with very similar frames...so, almost identical weights added to them. The extra 9" gets you a bit more weight capacity without changing the performance very much at all. I own the 15' WD and if you want the best of both worlds, I highly recommend going with the 15'
 

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I own 12 14 and 16' Aire cats. I suppose the question would be, how into boating are you? If you're way into it then multiple framed sets of tubes may be in order. If you're only planning on ever owning one more boat besides your fishing cat then a quiver of one boat with modular frame may be more appropriate.

What boating will you be doing the most often? If you're planning on a cat trip with gear plus passenger then a jag is the best IMO. My 14' cat is the only one that gets used. It runs big water, but is still small enough for tight rivers. It hauls a passenger well. It hauls a week's worth of gear for one well.

If you're confused like I was when I bought my first cat then just get the best deal you can. Get a used ocelot and frame till you decide. Wave destroyers aren't necessary unless you're in really demanding water. My guess is the 15' boat is too small for big trips and a bit too big for small rivers to be as much fun. Also, the guy who designed the 15' says it's too hard to reflip and he likes the 14'
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Don't confuse spey with more options. The poor guy has been debating between the 14 and 15 for two years. He's looking at a passenger and gear so an 11 or 12 is not going to work for him.
I've been set on the 15 for a while, but not 2 years! LOL! I'm gonna get the boat but the finances don't play out til next year DAMN IT!!! LOL

But honestly when you have time to think, you fret over the most minute of details...including 14, vs 15 lol
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you get longer tubes, the tail slop will be exaggerated. I would not go with a rowing bay only on anything longer than a 12.5' cat. In fact I think I have my wife talked into an 11' cat with this rowing bay and I would get a Class V frame for the 12.5' cat...after all, I could use another boat:D
Thanks for the point, very well taken and appreciated. I think the 2 man frame I was thinking about probably fits the bill then instead 1 rowing module and a passenger module. It would help lengthen the frame to tame the slop.
It'll be a bit heavier but semi-manageable I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I own 12 14 and 16' Aire cats. I suppose the question would be, how into boating are you? If you're way into it then multiple framed sets of tubes may be in order. If you're only planning on ever owning one more boat besides your fishing cat then a quiver of one boat with modular frame may be more appropriate.
The frame I have specified to Dave @ MadCatr "right now", would be exceptionally versatile - he calls it a tall order, but thinks he can do it. It would basically be 2 rowing modules welded together front/back if I had to describe it for you in simple terms. I told him I want his hallmark foot stirrups for both front and back seat positions. The ability to install the oar towers in either the front seat or the back seat so you could row from either of the seat positions. A removable standing platform that would rest/hook onto the inner scouting rails that could be put in either the front or back seat position. Front position it would be for a stand up/fishing position in calm water (back seat rower). Back position would be for a loaded one man trip for gear or a rear occupant to stand with a front rower. But if I was doing any majorwhitewater it would be removed, period for obvious reasons.

So I have the ability to row myself up front as a one man boat, a passenger either in front, or behind with the rower in the opposite seat for a 2 man whitewater trip. With the standing platform for fishing or gear. A versatile frame, a versatile boat, but still aimed more a whitewater than anything. Not planning too much on having big gear with a passenger (but I think I'd be fine with 1 man and a decent amount of gear within reason). Just a passenger and a moderate load would be the max. Nothing major.

I really can't wait to get out with it, take my son out on it, friends, whatever.
 

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Look at the Whitewater Machine Works does their cargo modules and see if Madcatr can do something similar. Their cargo modules weigh in at 7.5 lbs. To me versatility in a frame set up is crucial. I would definitely go that route. Think about it, you could hang a detachable module on the front and rear of a row module for a GC trip and use the same core rowing frame for the NF Payette on a smaller set of tubes.
 

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Look at the way Whitewater Machine Works does their cargo modules and see if Madcatr can do something similar. Their cargo modules weigh in at 7.5 lbs. To me versatility in a frame set up is crucial. I would definitely go that route. Think about it, you could hang a detachable module on the front and rear of a row module for a GC trip and use the same core rowing frame for the NF Payette on a smaller set of tubes. Madcatr's foot loops look totally badass.
 

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Spey I bet you won't end up ever rowing from the back once you get dialed in the front.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Spey I bet you won't end up ever rowing from the back once you get dialed in the front.
I'm sure I'll hog the front, YES, but, if there is someone with me whom I want to entertain.....I'll put 'em in the hot seat! (err wet seat?). It's only a matter of time....
 

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Have you ever sketched it out as reversible? Laid on the tubes in one direction it would have the rower in front, cargo module in back. Turned around on the tubes, it would turn the Carbo module into the passenger seating. Would need to flip the seat on its mount, a second set of foot stirrups- likely two positions for oar towers.....

Something to ponder while you wait in line for your frame.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Mountain Buzz mobile app
 

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Sorry to bring up an older topic but another thought occurred to me while I was bored wating for spring:(

When I build my frames I build them with the longest possible side rails that will fit the tubes. Even for my dedicated play boat. The yokes, seat bar, crossbar and footbars are all the same so going with the longest possible side rails only adds ounces to the weight, but it also adds rigidity and will reduce the slop mentioned already. But the important thing is that all you have to do is add a seatbar or crossbar to make it a passenger/gear boat. No extra modules or trailer frames etc..

Just a thought
 
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