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Discussion Starter #1
Who has beta on the new products coming from Jackson. Any ideas when they will release the info (update web site) on the changes for next year. I hear they are changing plastic.
 

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they are going to a super linear, no mas cross link, also they are bringing back the river runner type boats longer sliceyer fun to cartwheel and pirouette. They are keeping the star and rockstar series, as well as the fun and now fun runners, there is also another new addition to the river series too, but i dont know its name, they are 50-60-70 gallon models similar to the old glass wave surfer styles.

the villan is keeping the impact style bulk head but heard the super hero series is getting a fixed rail foot peg system. either one seems soild enough. I think beginers are having trouble with setting the bulkhead on the impact system so jackson is trying to provide both options.

I personally love the impact bulk system in the villan and hope they keep it as an option. I am also stoked for the new linear plastic vs the cross link. I have both a CL and SL villan now and the only gripe i have is that the CL boats seats move around on the bar or if i tighten the band clamps I move the seat and bar both, so I still move around more than in the SL. in the SL the track is welded to the floor so the seat does not move at all. I think this was the 2nd biggest reason to switch to SL from CL.

jackson rocks, so stoked to be in a jackson and looking forward to seeing what keeps coming.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Foot pegs? Really? I hope that's not the case. In my experience foot pegs in a creek boat create a potential foot entrapment in a vertical pin or piton accident. I personally have had a shoe lace and teva straps get hung up on foot pegs when first learning and trying to wet exit.
 

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Jackson Foot pegs

I have a Mega Rocker, Super Hero second generation and Villain.

All have a version of the folding bulkhead setup and I really like the concept. The Mega Rocker is all aluminum and being old school I like it better than the newer plastic versions. But no issues with any of them so far.

All my boats are Cross Link and so far all work great but I have had excellent service from linear over the years so my guess is Jackson will do linear the right way.

If JK happens to read this thread, I sure hope they keep the rope bulkhead system even if only as an option.

If footpegs came standard I would gladly pay extra for the bulkhead as that is, in my opinion, the only way to go on a creek boat.
 

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I could be wrong, I thought they were just changing the plastic doing away with crosslink. I wouldn't imagine they would change their bulkhead system. Where did you hear that bob? I also like the bulkhead system on my villian. With that said I boated with a guy on the S fork Payette a couple months back who has a Jackson Rockstar made from the new plastic. When I seen it it looked like the new stuff was pretty durable. He seemed to be happy with how it was holding up. Sounded like
 

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That band clamp system needs to be overhauled. I have drilled through the tightend band clamps and skrewed them to the frame. The seat and the pilar stay in place with the upgrade. I like the bulkhead system, it does not prevent wiplash, It has saved me from some ankle pain.
 

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I have seen the pegs in a hero and in a side kick. I am not sure they are in a super hero but would assume so.

I have seen the pegs on about 5 boats now, again. I am not sure if it will be an option or standard for 2012. but was worth mentioning.

bank, the screw idea is genious, I have a peice of square foam around the seat to help it stay in place as well as screws in the front and back. I think i am going to try and get a plastic rod through the bar and the foam bulk head front and back as well. It does help, but man that linear seat stays put... untill i break all the track welds :)
 

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I'm pretty sure the 2012 SH has the same bulkhead that it's had in the past, about 100% sure actually.

Maybe pegs are an option, not sure about that one, but couldn't really imagine anyone wanting them over the bulkhead..........
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I cant belive any whitewater boat manufacturer wanting to be cutting edge would use foot pegs. Thats old school 80's-90's technology. Maybe they are trying to squeeze every penny for profitability. Jackson has great designs but the outfitting has been lacking( In my opinion compared to LL bad ass outfitting ) Maybe Marty can chime in and enlighten us all?
 

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Pegs = holes in the shell, and holes leak eventually. They did put plastic foot pegs in the 2011 SideKick, similar to ones I used in Perception boats 20+ years ago. The foot pegs were bolted through holes drilled in the shell - and holes eventually leak. A much less expensive setup than the bulkhead.

The bulk head setup is more user friendly for kids. It allows them to position their feet in any number of ways without losing foot traction. It's also quick and simple to adjust it vs. the pegs where you reach in and adjust it a notch or two, try it out, adjust again, wash, rinse, repeat. My kids rotate through the kayaks we have so easy adjustment is key for me. I was fortunate enough to find an older SideKick with the bulkhead when I bought one new from a shop this summer.
 

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I doubt highly it is about profit, jackson makes awesome boats for both creeking and playboating now but they first started out with mostly playboats/riverrunner. now that they have the dough and a super solid flat water line, more money will be avalible for R&D in the creeking dept. I think the whole going to linear is about that, and it is fixable. all boats break, espcially creekers displacement hulls the most. but with the new linear plastic you can weld it on the spot or at home.

I do not work for or speak for jackson, I am just sharing my thoughts.

I think the foot pegs could work, especially if there were a plastic peice at the pillar and the foam could be trimed to fit.
 

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Pegs = holes in the shell, and holes leak eventually. They did put plastic foot pegs in the 2011 SideKick, similar to ones I used in Perception boats 20+ years ago. The foot pegs were bolted through holes drilled in the shell - and holes eventually leak. A much less expensive setup than the bulkhead.

The bulk head setup is more user friendly for kids. It allows them to position their feet in any number of ways without losing foot traction. It's also quick and simple to adjust it vs. the pegs where you reach in and adjust it a notch or two, try it out, adjust again, wash, rinse, repeat. My kids rotate through the kayaks we have so easy adjustment is key for me. I was fortunate enough to find an older SideKick with the bulkhead when I bought one new from a shop this summer.

good point Z, it might just be the side kick, I could have swore I saw it in a hero, but I hope not. The bulk head is where it's at...
 

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Jackson has great designs but the outfitting has been lacking( In my opinion compared to LL bad ass outfitting )
I agree with this statement, Just bought my first Jackson boat...a Villain (my reasons for buying were; on sale, crosslink plastic, 3 year warranty, local shop and two cracked Remixes in 2years) loving the boat, not the outfitting...seat moves, seat cushion moves, back band slips. I would gladly trade a cup or two of water in the boat for some badass outfitting with a roto-molded seat. I do give them kudus for thinking outside the box on the outfitting though especially the blukhead...it's brillant...the other stuff would be too if it worked a little better.
I hope this talk of no more crosslink is not true as I'm liking the way my crosslink boat is looking after 20 runs...I have visions of it holding up as well as my buddies 13yo crosslink 'Y'.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The plastic should be better than both SL and XL

Quote- From 9-02-11


Jefe... Here is the official "deal'" with Cross link and JK. 3 years ago, the plastics industry started to alter cross link due to several issues. Very long story, but bottom line JK is the only kayak company that uses cross link and we are a pimple on the plastics industry's tail end, so we had absolutely no say in the changes. The strength of the material has nothing to do with why we had to make the change away from Cross link. The real issue is that the changes made to the material have created a massive bump in blemished boats. JK has a huge focus on quality. EJ is nuts about quality and doesn't allow boats to go out the door that are less than perfect. The blemishes are just that... little circles in the shell, little deformations, but nothing structural. Cross link is already better than a 20% bump to material cost and then factor in a 10% loss in revenues to us for blemish hulls coming out of the oven and you can see real quick that this was becoming a problem for our profitability.
To be more telling... We are not using the same SL in 2012 either. For the past year we have been working with the plastic mfc on a unique linear based resin that has properties not typically found in Linear based plastics. this stuff isn't cheap, but we think we have the magic recipe and it's been getting tested all over colorado and around the US and Canada for the last season. Bottom line its frick'n hard as hell, has great wear characteristics and all indications point to it being better than cross link has been for years. This isn't smoke and mirrors, it's really quite impressive.
For that reason, and for a first in JK's history, we have allowed our dealers to move out their existing 2011 builds at a discounted price. These boats are quite a steal right now... and it won't last long as our dealers don't have much inventory. They still have the same warranty/the best performance designs/and actually will have accessories such as sweet cheeks and happy feet that the 2012's wont come with. 2012 is going to see a change in everything from the resin that the shell is made of, as well as upgraded outfitting and even grab handles. That said, they wont ship with happy feet anymore and only the Rogues and Rock Stars will have the Sweet Cheeks for ww. All that will now be an accessory.
For anyone looking for a once only discount on a JK... now is the time. Most dealers are participating I think... The fact that we have such a strong warranty, should leave no one wondering about anything with the 2011's but the fact they are stoked to have a fantastic boat at a smoke'n price.
 

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I know that for the Super Heros, there's only one plastic available and it also has the bulkhead. I believe what Jefe posted is spot on ;).
 

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Has Jackson's marketing/communication methodology changed as well? There was a time when all this change info would have been available on their website. Are they concerned the info will affect the ability to sell out the existing stock of boats? Or has the focus simply shifted to all things fishing? ;)
 

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The Hero, Dynamic Duo, Villain, Fun Runner and Zen series will all come with the Unishock bulkhead, new outfitting, new backband, new seatpad, new grab handles, new thigh pads and a water bottle.
The Little Hero and Sidekick also come with the Unishock.
JK's team has been using the 2012 plastic for a while. The official statement is:

  1. Our new material is stiffer and wears better than anything we have used to date - feel it, push on it, use it!
  2. it is a linear resin and thus is weldable and recyclable.
Hope that helps.
 

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I don't suppose anyone has a date on when the new models will be out(zen)? Or when the older models (super hero, monstar) boats will be updated.
 
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