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Side Deck Rails - Weigh in on how to Mod this Frame- Material HDPE or Marine Plywood?

23K views 37 replies 25 participants last post by  cake 
#1 ·
Greetings,

Would like to add side deck rails to my frame and replace the red passenger deck. I can buy 1/2 HDPE from Louisville Plastics for 200, but concerned about weight and lack of traction.

After reviewing many threads on the Buzz, seems like CDX plywood is a crowd favorite. I like the idea of heavy duty zip ties to secure to frame.

How have you all added side deck rails? Would love Diamond Plate but too pricey for me at this juncture.

I have Wood oars and a wood dry box cover, so I am leaning toward wood.

**Would really like a uniform look with the same wood type as oars and drybox cover..**

Please weigh in!! Your input and photos are appreciated.
 

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#3 ·
never been a fan of the hdpe decks, but most has a smooth side and a textured side. The textured side has enough grip if that is your only concern. I wouldn't use CDX as it has lots of voids and typically checks really badly. I would use MDO (medium density overlay). It's exterior plywood with a paper and resin coating. Doesn't have a wood grain look but doesn't look bad when varnished and never checks. It'll paint well, as that's what it's made for - signs (sometimes known as sign board). A 3/4" sheet is around $60. don't go 1/2" weight difference isn't significant and it'll flex and crack - opening up ways for moisture to enter. No need for marine ply, it'll do nothing but lighten your wallet. Most modern exterior plywoods use the same glue and the real difference is in the wood (marine is usually an oversees hardwood) and it has next to zero voids. It's meant for structural concerns and below the water line.
 
#4 ·
No need for marine ply, it'll do nothing but lighten your wallet. Most modern exterior plywoods use the same glue and the real difference is in the wood (marine is usually an oversees hardwood) and it has next to zero voids. It's meant for structural concerns and below the water line.

I disagree, Meranti plywood is made from many small plies, glued with an adhesive that is considerably more moisture resistant than the common glue used on exterior plywood, and has a better finish. Not to mention that

https://www.marine-plywood.us/mahogany-meranti-aquatek.htm
has "drops" from cutting, 1' x 10' for 30 bucks a piece.



Zip ties to hold the wood to the frame, well I wouldn't do this, would likely be just fine as long as the boat is upright, but as the plastic in all zip ties degrades and becomes brittle from UV with no indication that it's happening could cause you to part company with the wood decks unexpectedly. Black zip ties are preferable to white as they have SOME UV resistance, but I'd have at least 2 cam straps per deck as insurance if you embark upon this path.



If good grip / footing is a concern, you can always use Skidguard plywood instead, is an exterior plywood, so you'll need to seal the edges with a good quality pigmented exterior polyurethane resin.



https://www.hendersonmarine.com/docs/pdf-plywood-decking/20-01-skidguard-plywood.pdf


I've seen this used quite a bit for decking, and it seems to be a good compromise.
 
#7 ·
If you do use HDPE, I would suggest "King Starboard" It's UV stabilized and developed for marine applications. It also comes with molded in non-skid if you want. I used 1/2" on some side boards but it was too thin and flexed over a 16" span. I'd definitely go thicker next time. Good thing is NO maintenance required after installation.

Just another option.
 
#9 ·
Agree on the MDO. Got a couple free pieces from a friend in the sign business when I bought my 15' Hyside and used them for passenger bay deck and rowing deck with seat bolted on for over a decade with no maintenance. Front deck was finally starting to crack at hinges (slots with cam straps) so replaced with 5/8" Starboard about 5 years ago. Like noted above, I tried the 1/2" HDPE the first time around with my Puma frame and trouble with it sagging, not problems with the 5/8".
 
#10 ·
I have used HDPE and wood on different boats. I highly prefer the HDPE but damn it is heavy stuff! 1/2” is fine. Also I have used wood. I used 1/2” of some plywood I had. It doesn’t really matter if it’s marine grade or something else special. It’s wood, coat it multiple times with deck paint or a clear poly and it will be fine. I wouldn’t worry about what wood you use, it’s more about what you seal it with.

Also, using cam straps on the decking was kind of a pain on my last boat. My newest one I just used countersink bolts (my frame was built with this in mind). But I’m about to do decking on another boat and I am planning on HDPE and NRS extra length U bolts.
 
#13 ·
I used cedar planks for side rails and put a good two coats of stain on them. Restain every two years. It is cedar, so it is naturally rot resistant like redwood, pretty light as wood goes, and looks real nice. 1/2" is fine for the rails, but you wouldn't be able to use it for the bay.
 
#21 ·
Side deck rails

Questions on your comments: 1) How flexible? This looks like an awesome product to hang from frame cross-bars with straps and use as a drop-floor for jerry cans or ammo boxes. Are the floors too flexible for such use?

Also - I can see the edges being sharp if you cut them of with a saw - but is it hard to just sand-paper them down?

Thanks
 
#16 ·
I have cutting boards and that stuff is HEAVY. (hdpe) /they used to be cutting boards and I work in the service industry so I grabbed them out of the dumpster/I bleached the living stuff out of them and then tried to use straps to hold them along the sides.
1. The damn things shifted back and forth no matter the 3' straps i lashed around them.
2. I tried to get creative with how I lashed them in... Dozens of tries later I realized they would stay in "place" but when poised with a person using them as a leverage to climb in or jumping/stepping off them, they moved along my crossbars side to side some. so I lashed them to the side rails and realized I now had 7 million cam straps to hold on a very heavy to begin with piece of plastic.
3. I love them! I really do! However I take them off all the time and cant remember just the way I lashed them "the best" , therefore I am often frustrated by their nuisance as much as I really love walking about my boat.
4. I have used U bolts from my favorite Idaho frame superpower. This creates a nut and portion of U bolt exposed. So I sand them smooth and cut them shorter to fit just right. And still I have a spot that rubs everytime I stack boats. I use pieces of packing foam to cover them as best as possible when stacking but I'm constantly reminded that they are there just trying to stick up right where you don't want them to.
5. Side rails rock! Or do they?? I can't remember anymore...


P.S. Zip ties fail. They do this randomly and often. Ask your mechanic, farmer, handyman, computer tech, electrician, plumber, doctor, dentist and shower curtain ring salesman. They just fail and I would only trust them to be useful AF but not as structural support to ANYTHING.

My 2 cents

cheers
 
#17 ·
Thank you for a most excellent response

This made my day! So glad I held off on my HPDE order. I still think its a good option as a combo betty board/(passenger deck for those politically correct)
and table for the kitchen. Side rails, not so much.

I am off to search for some solid ash or cedar and lots of Stain/Spar.

Thank you everyone who weighed in! Get ready for HIGH WATER.8)

Jay

“The Dude abides. I don’t know about you, but I take comfort in that, knowin’ he’s out there. The Dude. Takin’ ‘er easy for all us sinners.” - The Stranger
 
#18 ·
It doesn't feel any heavier than normal plywood. There are other ways to connect the decks to your frame. Here's some pics of my installation, no slippage.

And for me the biggest benefit is NO maintenance.... I'm one of those guys who throws everything in the shed, then expects everything to work just fine after being in storage all winter
 

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#19 ·
I haven't gone the side board route yet. I lash gear to the rails enough that i'm sure they would be in my way most of the time, maybe it's cat thing.
I'm just here to say.... VIVA LA ZIP TIE! I've had my kennel floor attached with zip ties for the last 6 years, never broken one. If one does break; no big deal there are 10 more backing it up and I've got a pile more in the repair kit.
It's not like my floor is going to depart the boat.
If/when they start breaking i'll assume that they've reached their UV limit and replace all of them.
They are cheap, and at least as UV resistant as those expensive cam straps.
 
#22 ·
I put polymax on my side rails. It's awesome! easy to walk on and tons of places to strap gear down. I also used it for a beaver board in the rear. It held up fine with hundreds of pounds of gear on last year's 2 boat Deso trip. I have had 3 of the heavy duty zipties break (off river). They are easily replaceable in 2 minutes...and I have multiple backups holding the sideboard in place. win-win
 
#29 ·
Mine are 1/2 inch ply covered with Spar Varnish. They need a new coat about every 3 years. Had them on for about 10 years. I sometimes use heavy zip ties but I also use big hose clamps that i run through a piece of clear tubing to protect the boat.
 
#31 ·
I used to use ply and spar varnish and ended up doing maintenance on them every year to keep them in usable shape. That seemed to work for me but the wood was heavy and the spar made it heavier, not to mention the sanding and adding of varnish each season. When my decking ran out of life after 4 years, I ended up getting some diamond plate sheet from an online metal supply store. They sent me 2 cut pieces with the width and length I needed for my frame. Each piece was 96" X 13.5" and I think I paid somewhere around $90 for each one. With a jig saw, a drill and my dremmel I made all the necessary cuts into the diamond plate to fit my frame and have attachment points for any gear that I wanted. I used the dremmel tool to "sand" down all the edges of the cuts. I used straps to rig the diamond plate to my frame. Lighter than the wood/varnish combo so many people use and no more maintenance or up keep I am truly satisfied with my decking. I had always envisioned I would eventually weld it on at some point but have never found the need to add more expenses to the build. It works fine as it is and I can still break my frame down if I want to. I built this the summer of 2015 and if I had the chance to do it differently I wouldn't change a thing. There was no expense for welding and any one who can build their own decking with wood can do the same thing with this .80 thick diamond plate. Upfront costs were a bit higher but seem like a reasonable trade off for the lack of expenses and time in maintaining of any grade of plywood. This summer my home made table needs it's plywood top replaced and I know just the material that will last forever to do just that.
 
#34 ·
Here is the board set I just made for my raft. I used 10 ply prefinished both sides stuff from HD. Painted with oil based enamel to river proof. 4 coats of paint and these babies feel bomber as hell, almost plastisized. I plan to let my wife paint whatever she wants over the white than clear coat.
 

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#35 ·
Between the wood/HDPE, paint, connectors, tools and time you are better to just to AL Diamond Plate. It's not that expensive actually and any welding shop should be able to cut and weld it for you.

This guy in Greeley can probably do it for you cheap, he has good prices: Raft frame, Cataraft, Cataraft frame, Rowframe, and Whitewater Equipment

In the end, wood will need mantainence over the years and painting 4 coats is a pain, you need space to let it dry between coats and it continually needs upkeep.

The tools you need to buy if you don't have them for wood and HDPE include a table saw, circular saw, jig saw, hole saw, drill, router... Plus the knowledge to use them all. And to make them look professional (which doesn't really matter) you need to basically be Norm himself.

HDPE is great but spendy and heavy, I'd think it would be in the same price range as diamond plate.

Just my two cents, for the added time and hassle, my opinion would be to spend the money on the AL decks and never have to worry about them again. In the end I'd think you may be around similar prices, or even cheaper for AL after you consider all the factors that go into making decks yourself.
 
#38 ·
Don't overthink or over complicate it.

Go to HD, and get a 8x4 sheet of their most weatherproof exterior grade plywood. You don't need to spend effort or money on the marine grade stuff, that's made to pretty much live underwater.

Pick up [I think it's] 1 5/8's" conduit strapping, and stainless carriage bolts.

Make your cuts to how you want to fit it to your frame. And then seal it with 4 or 5 coats of a linseed/spar urethane mix. On the 2nd to last coat, mix in some sand from your favorite beach, there's your non slip traction. On the last coat, I mixed in a few of these to give it a faint glow to walk around on at night.

It's cheap, easy, strong, and functional. If you don't like it or make changes, just get another 8x4 and do it again.

Pictures aren't great, but gives you an idea of what it looks like. I used marine loctite around the edges to fill the voids, but it's been peeled off pretty heavily after a solid year of use. I don't think I'd use it again.
 

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