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Rower's seat vs sitting on padded dry box

25K views 93 replies 36 participants last post by  raymo 
#1 ·
Hey there,

I am getting a new frame set up and trying to decide whether to go with the seat or use a padded dry box for a seat. The outfitter frame is cheaper than Bighorn II but would be used without a seat. Thanks for any input regarding which you prefer and why.
 
#2 ·
I really like being able to lean up against a high-back seat (shown in photo to the left).
 
#7 ·
For long trips such as the Grand I definitely prefer a seat. I have a seat I made that mounts on top of coolers or dryboxes with cam straps. It is SUPER nice when getting tossed around in big water as you are far less likely to slide off the side and in to the soup. Easy trips like The Smith in MT where I am in and out of the cooler everyday, I sit on the cooler.

But if you are sitting on day 16-20 cooler then why not strap up a seat!
 
#10 ·
Thanks for your input. Really just comes down to personal preference and what I realized is that I could put a seat over a box if need be. (And I'd much rather get the less expensive frame anyway.) And it's rarely me doing the rowing anyway... I'm much better as a beer handler :)

Thanks!
 
#11 ·
I've just started experimenting with this method of a backrest.

It's a rolled up Paco pad strapped to the top of my flat seat board over a drop bag. There are a couple of extra holes drilled just back of centre on this seat board to strap it down.

I like being low in the boat and like easy access to the drop bag underneath. Automotive exterior Vehicle Bumper Boat
 
#17 ·
This is my preferred solution as well, prefer it as I can slide to hyside as needed should things not go quite as planned in big water. Rarely use the chair, but if it's needed it's there. My dory has a butt shaped 4" thick ethafoam seat with drain holes, was very comfortable without a seat back on a 28 day Grand trip. Held me in place, but when I needed to move, it was instantaneous. I've been injured (hit to the kidneys) by those bent aluminum seats like Andy likes, have heard of others taking hits from them too, if I were to use a seat, and again, I'm anti seat, I'd use a white low back tractor seat.
 
#14 ·
In heavy water, a tractor seat will hold your butt in place better than anything. I used to slide around too much sitting on coolers or dry boxes. Even had the oars push me off my boat too easily a couple of times. I don't like a high seat because I can't lean back far enough when panic power stroking. A tractor seat adds power to your strokes by anchoring your ass.
 
#16 ·
I row from ethafoam covered drybox. The ethafoam is miserable on its own, so it is always topped with something. I've tried a "tush cush" from Cascade River Gear (think mini paco pad), but I always end up sitting in a pool of water. I've also tried a Crazy Creek chair, which was kind of meh. I have a couple of Aire IKs so I've used the Cheetah Chairs out of those a few times, and that has probably been the best solution for having a backrest, but they are kind of a hassle to strap down and I don't like stuff that can potentially catch my oar handles at crucial times, so I moved on from those as well. In the end, I almost always end up just using a cheap square-shaped throwable boat flotation cushion and use the gear pile as a backrest. It gets me up off the the uncomfortable ethafoam, elevates me an inch or two to see over my passengers, keeps me from sitting in a puddle, doesn't soak up water and become soggy, and since it is attached only by a strap through one of its loop handles at the back hinge side, it is simple to flip out of the way if I need to access something in the box.

I've been chasing the perfect solution for years, but I'd guess that cheap little cushion has been my go-to for at least 5 seasons now. You can get them in a variety of color schemes to match your boat too:

https://www.amazon.com/Flowt-40104-...ateway&sprefix=throwable+,aps,204&sr=8-1&th=1
 
#18 ·
I prefer a high back seat. I like the back support and never carry enough gear to use bags as a back rest. My seat folds forward on hinges, so fast entrance to dry box, two pins to pull to remove.
 

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#20 ·
Hard to sleep with a seat. Grand trips I would row to the TL, nap and have the sweep boat wake me up. 8 boat trip that could be 15 minutes. Seats get in the way. If you want back support tie a dry bag behind you and move it around to the angle you want.

No seat allows you to put old blankets or towels to keep the cooler cooler on hot days easier. Drape the towel over the sides and back (not front) and tie down with straps. If the towel/blanket touch the water they will wick water up to keep the cooler cooler. Or throw buckets of water on them. If real hot, drape the towel over the front to cool your legs.

I then sit on scrim. The mesh I use in the kitchen or under a tent. Put the two sides on under the straps so it does not go anywhere. Water goes through it so you are not sitting in a puddle. Your butt does not slide on it either.

In those tough situations where you are having to heave on the oars, no seat allows you to lean back a lot more to pull harder. rare, but only need to do it once to appreciate bracing your feet and showing the gear back to stroke hard.
 
#21 ·
Tractor seat

Another vote for the low-back tractor seat...much more stability in rough water, better for your back (especially for us aging boaters), and when I really need to torque on the oars I find it gives me valuable leverage. I've been rowing for nearly 40 years and can't imagine rowing anything beyond a day trip without a rowing seat. It's just too squirrelly sitting on a box.
 
#23 ·
Very old and often repeated subject, same answers.

Here is my same answer about "getting tossed around". Have you ever thought that you might not be tossed around(as much) if you had a high back seat and properly placed kick bar?

A high back seat and kick bar defines very precisely where your ass should stay and where it should return to if momentarily dislodged.

Many times (I'm sure we've all seen) that "extra" hard-pull-possible-without-a- high-back result in the oars person ending up in the back seat, or even out the back into the river. Extra, extra hard pulls without the constraint of a high back can also result in unseating the oars off their pins, oar locks, etc which is bad news most of the time.

To each their own based on their own experience I guess. Perhaps I'm just to spastic to do it without a high back seat, never trained my ass cheeks to pinch the top of a cooler properly to hold me in place.
 
#25 ·
Sounds like you need another boat for the wife.

I'm in the highback crowd, I've got back issues and not having something firm to lean back on kills me after a bit. My rower's bay is fairly short since I sit high on a drybox and seat, but I can lock my feet into my footbar a couple different ways and I've never felt like I can't get leverage on pulls, and having a firm back to wedge my ass against during hard pushes into the wind is really nice. Plus I can kick back with my feet on the cooler and not tip over backwards.
 
#29 ·
I use a seat for my Mini-Max when day tripping but for most boating trips I just sit on my cooler with a Tuff River Stuff cooler pad on top.

I've tried the DRE/AAA style high back tubing seat and found it to restrict my movement in a way that was detrimental to being able to properly row. Maybe the tractor seats are better, but I'll stick to the low back.

I'm pretty sure a large reason this video turned out the way it did was because of the high back seat and not being able to make full strokes. The guy was set up well at the top but couldn't get full strokes in like the boat he followed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KHt_9w9McY

I traded out with the guy rowing the boat that hit Bedrock later in the trip, and its was VERY frustrating getting it to move. I hear guys say they can get more leverage with the seat when rowing forward, but it doesn't allow you to use your body core (where most of the power is) to get real power when pulling. If you really need back support, like Trevko an MNichols, I've done the crazy creek thing in the past with great success. I've certainly had my fair share of back problems, but I've been very comfortable just sitting on the cooler with lots of freedom to move around rather then being trapped in a chair all day.

I've actually been thinking about making a cooler pad that has higher sides then the center so that it holds you in side to side. I find myself sliding sideways MUCH more often then I've ever slid forward or back.
 
#31 ·
EM,

I looked at the last run over and over. He was going to go left(not on purpose) from the very top (I think) and never could make much effort to change that path. He couldn't establish river left to right momentum.

Even from a quarter of a mile away the biggest problem seems obvious(to me). His oars are lily dipping. The seat is too low and the towers are relatively too tall which results in an inability to dig deep and hard. When he strokes he is only lily deep. If the seating is that problemed then maybe other critical geometries are improper also (yes, his strokes seem chopped short which would result from too tight a cockpit).

If you improperly set up your cockpit no matter your seat you are going to have stroking and power issues. Granted, it is easier to make up for towers to near the seat, oar handles to inward or overlapping, towers too tall, seat too low etc when unconstrained by a high back seat. Hence, setting up your cockpit properly is more critical when using a high back seat.

Best to go see an expert when setting up your boat and even then don't trust them to do it right the first time. (BTW, not all boat store employees are experts. Few are at some stores.) Step one is to set up your boat according to prescribed formulas and then refine, refine, refine. Refinement is best done on a lake and then an easy river, not on the Grand or Class IV river. When refining, I suggest having a mentor along who knows what an unhindered, power stroke feels like.

On the Grand I have many times FIXED disheartened oarsman's frustrations by hack-sawing lower towers, "righting" un-righted oars with a cam-strap, making a seat back with duffle bags, etc. I suggest you be prepared to evaluate and do the same when situations such as this arise.
 
#33 ·
That could all be true...the guy rowing was basically a novice and had to make up for another supposedly experienced but crazy dude who we actually ended up having evacuated for psychological reasons. His "newb" status certainly contributed. The boat was provided by another guy on the trip who rowed his own 18 foot boat and both boats were set up by Cascade (the other guy is kind of a gear slut and owns 6 rafts or something...basically one of every size from Maravia). Having rowed that rapid a handful of times, I think momentum is important, but less so then getting the timing right and getting good clean strokes. He set up in basically the same spot as the white Aire Cat that went right before he did and had no problem...so it seemed to me that his lack of experience and how the boat setup contributed to that flip.

All that said, I rowed the boat for a few hours because the "newb" guy wanted to try my boat and see how a different setup felt. The only glaring issue I saw on it was the seat. The oar towers seemed to be spaced right and at a reasonable height, the kick bar was in about the right place and overall was pretty well set up. It was pretty loaded down with a big cooler and the worlds largest kitchen box plus a bunch of other stuff but other then the big counterbalanced oars that were making me serious miss my Squaretops... it was set up fairly decently...except that stupid high back chair.

DEFINITELY not a fan. It may work for ya'll, but I'll stick with my cooler pad that allows free movement and to make full body strokes (giggity?). I'm kinda weird though...I like tall oar towers, longer then normal oars, and probably some other stuff that is less then typical.
 
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