Oar tower placement on four bay frame - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 04-03-2017   #1
 
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FOCO, Colorado
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Oar tower placement on four bay frame

So I'm putting a 88 inch long four bay frame on an nrs e150. My issues are if I'm sitting on a 16 inch wide dry box with everything else in front of me this seems to place the oar towers well behind the center line of the raft, like easily over a foot. Anyone had any problems rowing like this? I don't see this being an issue on long slow floats like deso or cat, but on technical busy water how big of a problem is this? I'm in the process of making my side decks and hatch covers so need to dial my numbers in. My set up is 16 dry box, 24 inch rowers bay, then 19 inch cooler, rest is front deck. I guess I can just slide the whole frame forward but then the girlfriend looses out on leg room. Any thoughts appreciated.

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Old 04-03-2017   #2
 
St. George, Utah
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I am sure there will be many opinions from the master frame builders out there but I run a very similar (2 inches shorter) 4 bay frame on my 16 foot Avon. My oar towers are 14 inches back from the center line and I have been rowing frames with similar dimensions for a long time on all kinds of water. Works fine for me. I find balancing the load more important than oar placement regarding spin and maneuvering.
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Old 04-03-2017   #3
 
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It will work fine.


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Old 04-04-2017   #4
 
Willi..., Willimina, OR
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rowing off center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Critter70 View Post
So I'm putting a 88 inch long four bay frame on an nrs e150. My issues are if I'm sitting on a 16 inch wide dry box with everything else in front of me this seems to place the oar towers well behind the center line of the raft, like easily over a foot. Anyone had any problems rowing like this? I don't see this being an issue on long slow floats like deso or cat, but on technical busy water how big of a problem is this? I'm in the process of making my side decks and hatch covers so need to dial my numbers in. My set up is 16 dry box, 24 inch rowers bay, then 19 inch cooler, rest is front deck. I guess I can just slide the whole frame forward but then the girlfriend looses out on leg room. Any thoughts appreciated.
*
There is more inertia (rotational inertia) rowing off center....by a factor of the distance squared. That being said, you will not notice much in the first 20" or so. A stern frame is the most inefficient frame ever conceived. It afford the boatman a place to sit whilst his slaves do all the work. The amazing thing is that people PAY for that abuse.
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Old 04-04-2017   #5
 
Bellvue, Colorado
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Originally Posted by garystrome View Post
*
A stern frame is the most inefficient frame ever conceived. It afford the boatman a place to sit whilst his slaves do all the work. The amazing thing is that people PAY for that abuse.


Spoken like a true engineer. Yeaaaaa, second moment of the area.

I am guessing you never turned a heavy boat in big water with just a paddle, while trying to maintain forward momentum.

While you are correct on the math of the stern frame, I think you are failing to compare the efficiency of the stern frame to turning the boat with a single paddle. Stern frames save shoulders.
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Old 04-05-2017   #6
 
Willi..., Willimina, OR
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Math? Let's call it by its true name, arithmetic.
Stern frames are seating appurtenances to guide the paddle crew doing the work. A stern paddle has all the efficiency afforded to a rudder which is what we should call it. True, I haven't been there for many years having abandoned rafts for cats long ago. If you want to have fun, tell the paddle crew to do the opposite of what you tell em.
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Old 04-05-2017   #7
 
Willi..., Willimina, OR
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Rudder

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Originally Posted by Spaceghost View Post
Spoken like a true engineer. Yeaaaaa, second moment of the area.

I am guessing you never turned a heavy boat in big water with just a paddle, while trying to maintain forward momentum.

While you are correct on the math of the stern frame, I think you are failing to compare the efficiency of the stern frame to turning the boat with a single paddle. Stern frames save shoulders.
* Like a rudder, but working for tips? No math here though...Arithmetic maybe. Math requires logic
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Old 04-05-2017   #8
 
Bellvue, Colorado
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Originally Posted by garystrome View Post
Math? Let's call it by its true name, arithmetic.
Stern frames are seating appurtenances to guide the paddle crew doing the work. A stern paddle has all the efficiency afforded to a rudder which is what we should call it. True, I haven't been there for many years having abandoned rafts for cats long ago. If you want to have fun, tell the paddle crew to do the opposite of what you tell em.

Sure bh^3/12 is arithmetic, but it comes out of calculus. Im not going to sit and say calculus is deep math, but it is math.
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Old 04-05-2017   #9
 
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On my 16' Avon, my oar towers sit behind center on the frame itself, but I usually run the frame as far forward on the chafe pads as possible. This centers the oar towers on the boat and makes plenty of room to put a drop bag behind me. I'll also put a dry box behind the cooler sometimes too.



I've run it with the frame centered on the boat too, which puts me about a foot behind center with the oars. I didn't notice a big difference. I think you have to be pretty far from the center line to make it majorly noticeable i.e. a guide stern frame where the oar towers land where the "kick" starts on the stern of the raft.

I like to get wet and experience the big hits, so I've been tempted to put my oars on the front of the frame so but people assure me it will be a PITA. I've seen more then a few Catarafts set up that way, so it must not be too bad.
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Old 04-15-2017   #10
Gary F
 
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It depends on what you are running

In big white water unlike cat boats, you are going to want the weight forward to punch through big waves. Leg room is secondary. However, when doing a flat water trip, I like to be more balanced so I move my frame back. In the past, I have taken many a crew with a loaded paddle boat with me on a stern mount. We mounted the cooler longitudinally, loaded a bunch of dry bags on it, and put some rocket boxes by me in the back and more dry bags up front. It worked well even with crews that were less than athletic.
Back then I rowed 16 foot small tube Avon Pro pre-self bailers. Later, I had a 15 foot riken river ryder once again, pre self bailer as my personal boat. I also had a 16 foot cat boat for awhile too. Now, I am a private boater with boats from 10 foot to 18 all self bailers.
to reiterate, if I am doing a big water trip like the Grand I will rig weight forward.
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