Madcatr VS. Payette River Equipment - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 10-09-2015   #1
 
Villainista's Avatar
 
Fresno, California
Paddling Since: 1990
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Madcatr VS. Payette River Equipment

Trying to sort out advantages vs disadvantages of these 2 frames for a cat boat. Any help would be great.
PRE Cheaper, Faster to receive and lighter? Does the seat adjust? How much do frames go for?

Madcatr. More custom

Thank you,

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Old 10-09-2015   #2
Shapp
 
the grove, Oregon
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I would think if you are serious about buying one of these, the best sources for your answers would be to call madcatr and PRE, ask them what the pricing is, what the weight is and what the features are. Please report back.
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Old 10-09-2015   #3
 
Searching for water....., Idaho
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"PRE" (its not actually PRE who makes them), Ron all but stopped making frames. Give him a call to see if he will?

That region has a new frame maker - Class V Adventure Gear

https://www.facebook.com/classvgear

They look pretty nice too, and aluminum.
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Old 10-09-2015   #4
swimming
 
Denver, Colorado
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I'm with shapp. Call the manufacturers and quit listening to forum dribble. Unless you are a Class V only boater most of these frames suck for doing trips on. Get the right frame for the job,don't be one of the many sheeple wandering around Lochsa saying look at me I'm cool. You know how many people I see out with that style frame who are multi day boaters bitching about being uncomfortable.
That new frame shown is all over the place?? Madcatr tower bars, Canyon foot bar, Drl flop towers. Wish these guys would get original and stop starting a new frame business to steal everyones work and meld it into a big bastard
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Old 10-09-2015   #5
 
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at my house, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbound View Post
Unless you are a Class V only boater most of these frames suck for doing trips on. Get the right frame for the job,don't be one of the many sheeple wandering around Lochsa saying look at me I'm cool. You know how many people I see out with that style frame who are multi day boaters bitching about being uncomfortable.
I find this a bizarre statement. I find my madcatr extremely comfortable. I spent 22 days on it on the grand, and can't imagine how a frame would make or break comfort. Maybe those people are clueless about rigging their boat or something.

Pinned is right, PRE is done and Class V looks great (disclosure, I am friends with him). His frames are pretty close to the pre design, if that is what you like.

Over labor day class V had inventory so a standard frame was available. He does custom too.
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Old 10-09-2015   #6
 
Northern California, California
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Give Guy a call at Whitewater Machine Works. He's in Groveland and does great work, really cool lightweight breakdown frames. You could actually meet with him and then pick it up.
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Old 10-09-2015   #7
 
boizee, Idaho
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Being the owner of PRE I have few things to relay on this topic.

First some history. Ron McLay and I formed PRE in 2000; Ron had his own rental and equipment business for many years prior. Ron built frames, and he and I tweaked and tested until we settled on the "PRE" design. Although under the PRE umbrella, the frames were basically Ron's endeavor and he got all proceeds. Ronnie and I decided to split the business in the late 2000's for various business reasons. It was an amicable split and we work together all the time, trade rental boats around, I continued to send him frame business, etc.

Ronnie broke his neck (c1) in a dirtbike accident a few years back and also suffered a stroke while at the ER due to an unknown tear in an artery. He was lucky to survive, but that is Ron! He has mostly recovered, but his fine dexterity is not all the way. He has decided to get out of the frame building because of the extra effort it now requires. This is a major bummer as Ron's "PRE" frames were a great product at a super price. Many have copied them.

Ron may get back to building frames at some point and/or could be convinced to do one here or there. His number is 208 six 42 4009.

In the transition period, I had a lot of customers looking for aluminum (Ron only did emt), so I started working with Jesse Fisher (ClassVgear now) to morph the PRE frame into an aluminum version. It took a couple iterations but I really think he has nailed it. I supported Jesse's decision to brand it under his own company, and I will send business his way much like I did for Ron. I am now running (testing!) his frames and love them. They have top of the line craftsmanship to match the best on the market.

As for an earlier comment, all I will say is it takes constant innovation to move the industry forward, but that doesn't mean having to reinvent the wheel. You take a great design and improve upon it. For example, Ron started putting quick fold down towers on his frames decades ago, and now that is a standard feature with the newer players, but with new ideas. Dave Nissen came up with replaceable bars for the tower slides, Ron (and now Jesse) seized on that idea. Etc etc etc. My design of the Legend series cataraft came about the same way, tweaks and improvements.

As for doing gear trips with these "cool show off" frames, I guess I've just been doing it all wrong these last 35 years. To each their own.

Ted Day
Payetteriver.com
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Old 10-09-2015   #8
 
boizee, Idaho
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edit: the last 25 years, not 35....I'm not THAT old but getting there
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Old 10-09-2015   #9
swimming
 
Denver, Colorado
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I still think it would be awesome for all these contenders to put their money where there mouth is and have a frame build off event somewhere. Everyone bring the best designed,,quality fabricated frame you can build say in a playboat style and have them judged. Of course I don't know if it would do much good as most forum boaters are pretty biased to what they own and wouldn't even try or let alone admit if there was something better. They do the Ostrich maneuver and burry the head in the sand and say mine is the best lol.
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Old 10-09-2015   #10
 
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Montrose, Colorado, Colorado
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There's a lot of great frames out there for cats. I've rowed Madcatr and PRE- in addition to old school "Coyote" modular frames and NRS cat frames.
For my body geometry and general preference, I like the PRE design better. I like having my foot position a bit higher and not as splayed out to the sides. Why? In my opinion, when your foot position is a bit higher, when you drop into a big hole and the boat suddenly de-cellerates, having your legs straighter instead of low, gives better bracing. Also, as a nuance, the PREs have a larger "tunnel"- more of a U shape rather than a triangle tunnel like a madcatr.

My PRE frame is a 3 bay design with a bay behind the rowing position for cargo. I also have a super light trailer frame I can use for extra cargo. The frame weighs about 45 lbs.
The frame is super comfortable and pretty versatile. I've used my cat (12.6 Legend) on various day trips on up to 6 days. The only reason I don't use it on long trips is because I've got a 16' Sotar round boat for that, but the next Grand trip I get, I might row the Legend and my wife would row the raft...

My advice- see if you can actually row a few different cats with different frames. I will say that if the PRE I currently have would've been available in aluminum I would've gone that route for the weight savings. As it is, a steel emt PRE frame is still pretty light and is a very functional design at a good price.

*I am not affiliated with PRE-just like their design.
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