Ideas for scaling down regulation equipment? - Page 2 - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-24-2019   #11
 
bighorn1478@msn.com's Avatar
 
lafayette or Grand Lake, Depends on mood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1961
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,189
Ash/trash can = empty new One gallon paint can small & light. If you do not plan on fires pack it with tp



https://www.moosejaw.com/product/tra...chair_10274772
3.3#'s 17"x 5"x 7"


All three weigh less than a standard folding chair and take up less space


Partner fire pan packs small.


Oil pans have multiple uses, fire pan, dish washing or add a grate to grill.


One gallon hand wash, 2 6"x6"x10" lock n lock containers (13 1/2" stacked)


I can self support for a week with two people in a 12' raft with a 3 bay frame easily and not real heavy, about 600# (not including our two fat butts).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hand wash1.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	1.28 MB
ID:	35387  

__________________
Time is like a river. You cannot touch the water twice, because the flow that has passed will never pass again. Enjoy every moment of life on or off the river.
bighorn1478@msn.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-24-2019   #12
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Ash/trash can = empty new One gallon paint can small & light. If you do not plan on fires pack it with tp.
Technically the paint can is under the 300in³ stated in some regulations, but it's a GREAT solution. Take it with you, use it. Bring a larger container to leave in your car "just in case" the ranger requires it.
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019   #13
 
slickhorn's Avatar
 
Seattle, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 517
I do similar trips often. You've gotten many good suggestions. It's a whole systems approach, and no one trick will solve it all.

firepan:
oil pans, a steam table pan, a pop up pit. also a propane fire ring or no fires a'tall.

kitchen:
roll tables not hatch covers. gravity filter and a 2.5 gallon camp jug. skip the wishy washy that is some bougie ish. I really like the small 5lb propane tanks for small light trips with full stoves. or go packpacker hardware.

camp:
prioritize a big tarp like the Zing. skip the pacos and look at the thermarest neo air x-therm XL. 25" wide, light, warm. small light chairs of course.

Coolers: consider a smaller soft cooler to free up a bay for other gear. No cooler at all doesn't have to be spartan either...

Groover: I think the GC is the only place I've been that gamma seal buckets and wag bags don't work. The double doody bags have larger capacity. The eco safe boom box is so small I use it for self support IK trips. also with wag bags. I've never needed to show an additional ash recepticle than my gamma buckets. Most places say wag bags not allowed -- they mean without a water tight hard sided container. The biggest issue with wag bags is folks trying to drop 'em at takeout dumpsters or small town gas stations.


review the gear carefully and leave as much as you can at home...trade out low use heavy items (tons of water, huge rarely used gear) and focus on stuff that enhances the trip (light fishing gear, a sportbrella). a light 2nd boat (ik or packraft) is always a hit on a 1 boat 2 person float.
slickhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-24-2019   #14
 
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Ash/trash can = empty new One gallon paint can small & light. If you do not plan on fires pack it with tp
What a completely stellar idea. And if that's not enough, our local sherwin williams gives brand new empty ones away for free, if you buy something, just like the paint stir sticks (read kindling LOL)
MNichols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #15
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
I've seen 70 cubic inches per person per day as a recommendation for calculating groover volume(s). I think this is a bit on the high side and my experience is that people tend to poop more on the order of 40-50in³ per day.
I think my math was off.
I believe recommendation is 40in³/user/day and actual is closer to 20-25in³/user/day


More info:

Per the manufacturer's recommendations: Eco-safe tank is good for 50 uses.
Jonny Partner is stated for 70 uses.


Eco-safe holds 1,155cubic inches or 25in³/user/day
Jonny Partner is 2,448 cubic inches or about 35in³/user/day

So do Jonny Partner users eat more?!

Even crazier, the Selway toilets are rated for 60 uses, but are closer to 3,000 cubic inches. (50in³/user/day)

What does everyone else use to calculate groover use?
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #16
My name isn't Will
 
Will Amette's Avatar
 
Willamette Valley, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 211
When I built kayak bazooka poop-tubes, I used the guidance from Rogue River which is a pint per person per day. That's just under 30 CuIn. Right in between the numbers you quote for Johnny Partner and EcoSafe.



I've got a five-day and a seven-day tube. It's not a bad idea to have a little extra head room, especially if you might get "backed up" from road food on the way to the river....



I figure 50 user days for the rocket box. If the group will be pushing close to that, probably going to bring another option just in case.


No idea why the differences in manufacturer suggestions. They are somewhat different from what's listed in the linked PDF document, at least for some models.


I run a toilet rebate program. The EPA WaterSense program has a minimum requirement to remove 350 grams of soybean paste made into 50 gram sausages. The number was set as just above the 95th percentile of the adult human male. So there ya go.
__________________
My name isn't actually Will.
I live in the Willamette Valley about a half mile from the Willamette River.
Will Amette is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #17
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,049
This is actually very helpful.
Assuming most fibers are a similar density as water (some poop floats, some doesn't), then 1 grams = 0.0610237438368 cubic inches...and 350 grams = 21.739in³!

We all eat more on the river with fresh air, exercise, and good food, so 25-30in³ seems like a safe number without being too conservative or too risky!
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #18
 
carmen, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 32
My last trips on the MF and Main Salmon were in 2018 but this equipment was approved at that time:
1. Used a Pett Toilet System which uses wag bags.
2. Used a lightweight turkey broaster for fire pan.
3. 7 gallon plastic bucket with gamma lid for trash and ashes (same bucket).
4. Collapsible army shovel.
My friends and I used to do self-support trips with canoes and kayaks and we are still always going as light as practical. The biggest difference between now and then is the beer and the quality and quantity of food.
nolichuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #19
 
SLC, Utah
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 157
I do a mix of raft, kayak, and packraft trips and have learned to just call the river office before you go if you want to carry something out of the ordinary. Each river is different and each ranger is a little different. That is especially important for packrafters - some river rangers really don't like them and it is useful to have gone through your equipment choices with the office and have approval before you arrive. Not to mention Dinosaur Nat Monument by name.

The 4 rivers site is particularly good at listing possible options for kayakers. The question to ask then is if you can do that with a raft and if you are a group of 2 going light, you should be able to make a good argument that kayak rules should more or less apply to you.
paulster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #20
 
carmen, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 32
Can anyone explain to me why the 4 rivers rangers are not interested in seeing your PFD's or your first aid kits? Also, it is not a requirement that you wear a PFD. I realize that most boaters have the good sense to always wear one but I know some who do not. One last point regarding the comment about possibly leaving some of the required equipment in your vehicle after the inspection process. One time while camping at Sheepeater we were paid a visit by the river patrol who proceeded to verify that we had all the required equipment. So don't take a chance.
nolichuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One time Dinosaur regulation. smhoeher Whitewater Rafting 12 02-15-2019 03:34 PM
Grand Canyon Regulation Experts buckmanriver Whitewater Kayaking 25 03-14-2014 08:27 AM
Lower BLue going down, down DOWN klamb Whitewater Kayaking 2 05-25-2006 03:06 PM
Help Wanted at Down River Equipment Down River Equipment Commercial Posts 0 04-12-2006 03:59 PM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.