Hypalon and Toluol/Toluene - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 04-26-2015   #1
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,261
Hypalon and Toluol/Toluene

Hey Folks,

So, I bought an older Avon that needs some replacement D-rings. I have all the components except toluol/toluene. I was under the impression I could get the solvent locally but that is turning out to be more difficult than hoped. To make it worse, I was hoping to do the repair work in time for a 3 day float this coming weekend so it looks like NRS and Clavey are out since they only deliver the substance ground and it would not get here in time for the bond to thoroughly cure.

1) Have folks had any luck with big box stores or specialty shops (paint, car body repair, etc) selling the stuff to the public? Home Depot doesn't carry it locally. I am gonna do my best to call around in the a.m. to see if any other shops may have it but I am not holding my breathe.

2) Does anybody know a rough estimate on the strength the substance adds to the bond with hypalon equipment? NRS highly recommends it but one of the pages on the JPW site says otherwise (though I don't believe they manufacture hypalon rafts). Thoughts from someone who has done the work or knows the chemistry.

Thanks in advance. I may just end up going with the old D-Rings this go round if I can't find the stuff locally if the bond strength is of concern. I already bought the Clifton accelerator so ... in for a penny in for a pound I suppose.

Phillip

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Old 04-26-2015   #2
 
Rifle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 97
d-ring work

Hi Philip.
If Home Depot does not carry Toluol in their paint section, try a specialty paint store like Sherwin-Williams. Also, maybe your local hardware store that sells paint. Any auto paint stores in your area? Maybe a body shop.
The two-part glue will bond strong, however it needs 24 hours or so to cure and set properly. Cold temps and high humidity hinder the process.
When you use the toluol, be sure to be in a well ventilated area, preferably outdoors as it's nasty stuff.
If you can't get the right materials, wait til you do. Enjoy that Avon!
Cheers.
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Old 04-26-2015   #3
 
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I'd try the local true value or ace, ours has a nice little selection of those solvents. Maybe even Walmart? If there is a raft shop nearby they would likely help you out in a pinch too. Good luck...
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Old 04-26-2015   #4
 
montrose, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Jack from Jacks Plastic knows his stuff. IT sounds like you already read it, but if you haven't, this is required reading: Jack's Plastic Welding, Inc. I personally would take anything that he says to heart whether it be hypalon or pvc.

I also recall hearing that Dave Demaree from DIB recommended against wiping with tolulene, and I don't think anyone on the planet knows more about rubber boats.

Anyway, the tolulene attacks the rubber. Too much can actually be really bad. My view is that good glues have the proper amount of tolulene for the bond already in them. Most of the time that I have seen people use tolulene in a hypalon repair it is to clean the area before applying glue. You can sure clean the sanding dust with something less harsh on your rubber and it will work fine.

The bottom line: IMO you don't need to wipe with tolulene. It is far more important that you do a very good job prepping the area and getting down to bright, fresh rubber, but don't go too far of course.
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Old 04-26-2015   #5
 
Salt Lake, Utah
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 13
If you happen to be in Salt Lake we have plenty in stock right now (Utah Whitewater Gear). Paint stores usually have it but you typically will have to buy it by the gallon.
Good luck!


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Old 04-26-2015   #6
 
telluride, Moab, UT
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Regarding your 2nd question....

You will need the tolulene to clean and prep the roughed up area you want to patch, but I have also used laquer thinner if I had no tolulene. If your question is if you need to do the quick wipe with tolulene after applying the two thin layers of glue to reactivate the glue just prior to placing your new patch, it is not 100% necessary.

I generally will apply a very thin layer of glue with a 2 inch wedge I cut from mini cell foam for a squeegee, as this will apply a thinner coat of glue than a brush, and less is more, you want a very thin coat of glue. Do both sides. Let the first coat dry completely, in the shade, no humidity, so it is not tacky, about 15 to 20 minutes. Then using a new mini cell squeegee, apply 2nd thin coat, both sides, and let it dry about 10 minutes or so until it is still slightly tacky if you touch your (gloved) finger on it. Then you can apply your patch carefully and press out with a roller and really rolling out the edges very well using all directions. If the 2nd coat dries too much, you need to either do the toluene swipe or if you have no tolulene, then you can also apply a very thin 3rd coat and wait to slightly tacky and try again.

The tolulene swipe reactivates the glue to make it tacky so it bonds together properly, but again less is more, too much solvent and you will weaken the bond or even remove the glue. After rolling, within 12 hours, you can carefully remove any extra glue using tolulene, but too much and the edges will fail. I always mark the patch area and you could also use tape to make a nice looking patch. The excess glue is only cosmetic and will turn brown as it ages.

Hope this helps, this has worked well for me. I wear a chemical mask, I value my remaining brain cells.
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Old 04-27-2015   #7
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Tabernash, Colorado
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Deffinately protect your self when working with tolulene, it is rather nasty stuff, used to do a lot of glue work at the rafting company, have become allergic to it, and break out in hives if exposed now.
Plus all the stuff the label talks about, so deffinately take appropriate precautions.
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Old 04-27-2015   #8
 
telluride, Moab, UT
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 61
And we wonder......

....why everyone gets cancer now, kids w autism, parkinson's, etc very nasty stuff, take appropriate protection measures. The things we do for fun???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattman View Post
Deffinately protect your self when working with tolulene, it is rather nasty stuff, used to do a lot of glue work at the rafting company, have become allergic to it, and break out in hives if exposed now.
Plus all the stuff the label talks about, so deffinately take appropriate precautions.
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Old 04-27-2015   #9
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Toluene To prep and heat gun to re-activate.
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Old 04-27-2015   #10
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattman View Post
Deffinately protect your self when working with tolulene, it is rather nasty stuff, used to do a lot of glue work at the rafting company, have become allergic to it, and break out in hives if exposed now.
Plus all the stuff the label talks about, so deffinately take appropriate precautions.
They luckily had one gallon collecting dust at my local Ace. Seems like Toluene just isn't commonly used, at least locally. Picked up an appropriate respirator with organic vapor cartridge. I already have a history of neurological problems so no need to add more to my plate.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It sounds like there is still some contention on its use by various groups but I am gonna go with the repair recommendations that seem consistent between NRS, Clavey, Hyside, etc. Hopefully the folks putting D-rings and equipment on hypalon on a regular basis have their game together.

Phillip
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