Groover Seat - Mountain Buzz
 



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-09-2013   #1
 
duct tape's Avatar
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 794
Groover Seat

Two questions really

Can anyone point me to the right place in the hardware store for the right kind of attachments to add to the bottom of a toilet seat to attach it to either a rocket box or bucket with or w/o gamma lid (realizing theses will be different - haven't decided where I'm going with this yet). Just some small angle iron, etc? Any tips on how to do this appreciated

Legal use of rocket boxes, without ecosafe or other inserts, on the GC vs Yampa / Green / Idaho?? I've read somewhere, maybe here, that at least on the Grand you have to have some type of unit with an inherent value to disincentivize just chucking the whole, filled unit into the dumpster at the end of the trip. Of course, with current cost of rocket boxes, value has gone way up. But talking with the GC outfitters, they just send out empty boxes + seat on their rental trips, but maybe outfitters have a special dispensation since they will properly take care of the dumping

I could have this all wrong. Appreciate any advice.

- Jon

duct tape is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-09-2013   #2
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,009
Hi Duct,

I just screwed two pieces of aluminum angle to the bottom of the seat, at the correct location to center the seat on the box. Make sure it's sized to hold the seat firmly.

I'm not aware of any requirement in the Grand for rocket box liners for non-commercial trips. I've seen and heard of lots of plain rocket box systems down there.

Here's the relevant portion of the regulation.

***
The toilet system must provide for secure containment and adequate volume of storage. Human waste must be deposited directly into the container. The main river trip toilet system and system used at camps must be the washable, reusable type allowing for the sanitary transfer of waste materials to septic vaults or sewage treatment facilities. For day hikes and when the river trip is in progress between camps, trips must as an alternative use toilet systems of the type that use dry chemical/enzymes to render solid human waste into nonhazardous products acceptable for disposal in permitted landfills. (Products currently known to meet this criteria and render solid human waste into nonhazardous products include the PETT System from Phillips Environmental Products, Inc and the Restop 2 from American Innotek, Inc.) Because of their potential for leaking, plastic bucket systems like the “Scat Packer” are NOT permitted on the Colorado River within the Grand Canyon. Used PETT/Wag Bags must be placed in the trash and that trash MUST be stored in a waterproof container like a 20 MM ammo can. Toilet containers that have used PETT/Wag Bags in them cannot be washed out at the SCAT machine in Meadview.

The following components comprise an acceptable system:

A. Washable reusable toilet system designed to contain and store human waste, i.e., welded plastic storage boxes, aluminum boxes, etc. Do not store toilet or associated toilet articles next to food or food equipment to prevent cross-contamination.

B. Toilet seat. A disinfectant should be used to kill pathogens on the toilet seat.

C. Use heavy duty rubber gloves during toilet set-up or clean-up and disinfect them after each use.

D. Many commercially available chemical additives and holding tank deodorants are available. The park strongly suggests the use of non-toxic, non-formaldehyde based additives to lessen the impacts to sewage treatment facilities. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen.

E. Toilet paper, hand-washing water dispenser, and soap. It is suggested that an antibacterial soap be used. Bar soap is not recommended. A system which allows flowing water to rinse soap off hands without contaminating hands in the process is recommended. The rinse system should not employ the use of beverage coolers due to possible contamination of the spigot.

F. Due to the impact of high volumes of river trip members visiting the same areas, when hiking away from your river camp, bag all human feces and bring it back to your river camp and deposit it in your toilet.

***
Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
richp is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #3
 
duct tape's Avatar
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 794
Thanks much Rich.

After rereading my first post, wanted to be clear it's not my intention to just fill the boxes and then dump them, especially now that the value of my rocket box collection is approaching that of my retirement plan.

But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it , than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use.
duct tape is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-09-2013   #4
BCJ
 
BCJ's Avatar
 
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Two lengths of 1-1/2" PVC pipe sliced lengthwise on a table saw so the slip over the edge of the rocket box, one on each side, works quite nicely. Is both inexpensive and compact. For our system, we installed RV clean out and garden hose fittings on a single rocket box lid so if there is no scat packet, any dump station or septic/sewer clean out line will do. The same lid can be moved from box to box to clean out more than one.
BCJ is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #5
 
cataraftgirl's Avatar
 
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,344
We use the seat on a gamma lid with bucket system. Here's how I've attached the seat..... buy an extra gamma lid. Cut out the center portion, leaving only the outer portion with the threads. Buy a basic toilet seat with a wood core. Center the seat on the gamma lid and mark it for position.. Screw the seat to the lid using short screws. This took some trial & error to get screws that were long enough, but not too long that they came up through the seat (ouch). A friend tried to use Gorilla Glue alone, and it works for awhile, but then the glue dried out and the seat came apart. One thing we learned the hard way was to add some adhesive backed foam insulation strips to seal any gaps between the seat & lid where creepy crawlies will get in. That's something to watch for no matter what system you use. We add carry handles on the sides of the bucket with waterproof neoprene washers. Makes it easier to carry upright and to strap down on the boat. We have used this system on the Main Salmon, Middle Fork, Rogue, Desolation, San Juan with no problems. We've used these for 10 years, and they are going strong. The buckets fit very well in scat machines. Making a gamma lid toilet costs about $30-40.

These pics are of my first toilet. On future ones I cut out more of the center of the gamma lid.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF4687.JPG
Views:	769
Size:	761.8 KB
ID:	7428   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF4688.JPG
Views:	666
Size:	1.15 MB
ID:	7429  

cataraftgirl is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #6
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,807
"But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it , than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use."

Which brings to mind a story.
I am a big fan of the Eco Safe system. Not saying it is the best for every one, It just works for me.

Some years ago after a fun trip down the Salt River AZ, first week of April (hot weather that year), we were slow at the take out. Could not find a place in Globe to dump. Just put the rocket box in the trailer and headed back to Tulsa Town. Same deal at home, tired and the rocket box stayed in the trailer longer than it should have. Finally took the groover to a local RV dump and flushed it as per normal. Nothing solid flushed out, looked inside and it was a solid block of poop in the bottom. Took me a long time and very careful use of a hammer and extra long big blade screw driver to get the material out of the eco safe unit. Since then on take out day morning I have put a generous amount of dish washing liquid and some river water into the eco safe and let the normal travel shaking action liquify the poop etc on the way to a dump station. This may develop some extra gas but has not been a problem for me so far. I also do some scout work and find a dump station on the way home.

Passed along in the hope it makes clean out a little easier for those who use Eco Safe units and don't have kiddos at home.
okieboater is online now  
Old 12-09-2013   #7
 
prescott, Arizona
Paddling Since: 1982
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 280
here's a seat that works perfect with a gamma seal system.

Amazon.com: Travel John Flexible Pvc Commode Seat 66902: Sports & Outdoors

i wouldn't use it with my rocket box system, it's a little too soft.

if you happen to be passing through moab, they sell them at canyon voyages for about the same price.

bob
86304 is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #8
 
Dave Frank's Avatar
 
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,827
Plywood with an oval hole and a couple one by twos will keep it from sliding off the ammo can. small hinges and a second piece make a nice lid.

WE found one of these left behind at what must have been a single use lunch stop on the MFS. We topped it off and packed it out.
__________________
Dave

(seven two 0)-298-2242
Dave Frank is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #9
 
cataraftgirl's Avatar
 
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by okieboater View Post
"But I'd rather just suffer through the process of cleaning the boxes once at the RV dump, or better yet have my kids do it , than have to deal daily with the mess in the EcoSafe liner after every use."

Which brings to mind a story.
I am a big fan of the Eco Safe system. Not saying it is the best for every one, It just works for me.

Some years ago after a fun trip down the Salt River AZ, first week of April (hot weather that year), we were slow at the take out. Could not find a place in Globe to dump. Just put the rocket box in the trailer and headed back to Tulsa Town. Same deal at home, tired and the rocket box stayed in the trailer longer than it should have. Finally took the groover to a local RV dump and flushed it as per normal. Nothing solid flushed out, looked inside and it was a solid block of poop in the bottom. Took me a long time and very careful use of a hammer and extra long big blade screw driver to get the material out of the eco safe unit. Since then on take out day morning I have put a generous amount of dish washing liquid and some river water into the eco safe and let the normal travel shaking action liquify the poop etc on the way to a dump station. This may develop some extra gas but has not been a problem for me so far. I also do some scout work and find a dump station on the way home.

Passed along in the hope it makes clean out a little easier for those who use Eco Safe units and don't have kiddos at home.
We always spray the inside of the gamma bucket with Pam before the first use. The first user gets that honor. Then on takeout day, we pour enough river water into the bucket to make "poo stew." The action of the river on the last day agitates the contents of the bucket, making it easier to get out at the scat machine or RV dump. I ended up with the bucket after a Deso trip (no scat machines in Utah), and it sat on my trailer for 2 days. Still liquid at the RV dump. Wow....what a wonderful topic

That soft toilet seat looks comfy. We used to use a seat similar to that, and just unscrew the gamma lid with each use. But we found that in their haste to groove, some folks weren't very careful with the lid, and were just tossing it into the sand. Also the contant screwing and unscrewing for use was stretching the o-ring seal, and it would become so loose that it would fall off. The final thing that pushed us to the seat attached to the gamma lid was a frequent trip member who has a very strong aversion to seeing the poo every time he took the lid off to groove. With the permanent seat, he can groove and shut the lid without all the visualization.

OK.....enough poo talk.
cataraftgirl is offline  
Old 12-09-2013   #10
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,807
Yup, I now do the PAM spray on groover set up as well.

PAM is indeed wonderful stuff. I use it on my DO's inside no matter how seasoned they are, on the grill before grilling what ever and on squeaky oar locks as well.
okieboater is online now  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BEST GROOVER ROCKSPLITER Kayaking | Gear Talk 10 08-07-2012 10:08 AM
tractor seat vs temptress seat rafterman Kayaking | Gear Talk 33 04-04-2011 01:13 PM
Groover use Colorado Ice Kayaking | Trip Planner 18 02-28-2011 11:32 PM
Action seat (without swivel) for rowing seat?? sniper1112 Whitewater Kayaking 16 02-27-2011 11:46 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.