Gamma2 Vittles Vault VS Coyote System II for rafting???? - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 05-07-2015   #1
 
telluride, Moab, UT
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Gamma2 Vittles Vault VS Coyote System II for rafting????

I am planning on using some of these for dry storage on my Grand Canyon trip.

The Vittles Vault Outback 50 Air Tight Pet Food Containers by Gamma2

I am so done with heavy, and now expensive, rocket boxes, and am looking for an alternative for dry storage. I am thinking things like toilet paper, GORP, charcoal and other dry goods would be quite happy in these dry containers and be easy to store and lightweight. I have a bunch of "dry" boxes I use, but know from experience, the gaskets always leak, so for important things, you need to ziplock everything to ensure for flips.

We are working on seeing if they would be suitable to the NPS for human waste as they are 0.1055" thick high density polyethylene plastic. I believe it is similar to the coyote design groover. Here is the Coyote system link, http://www.amazon.com/Coyote-River-G.../dp/B00030NLQC

I am not sure on the thickness on the Coyote system and wondering if anyone has used the Coyote system II groovers and has some input on them??

I have had great success with West System G flex epoxy for polyethylene repairs on coolers, kayaks and such and can make nice handles with either nylon webbing with some schedule 40 PVC or just use up some of my old hypalon D rings for bomber tie downs.

So what do you think?..... Dry storage for sure with the possibility of a cheaper, lighter DIY groover???

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Old 05-07-2015   #2
 
Durango, Colorado
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A lot of rivers won't accept the Vittle Vaults / Gamma buckets unless you're using a wag bag system (and some won't allow those either).

The Coyote system is accepted on any permitted trip in the US. I like it a lot better than the EcoSafe as its bigger, more stable, larger opening and doesn't have the "junk tray" in the front of the seat that gets gross. Throw it in a large dedicated dry bag and you've got as much odor protection as the Eco.
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Old 05-07-2015   #3
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmarcia View Post
I am planning on using some of these for dry storage on my Grand Canyon trip.

The Vittles Vault Outback 50 Air Tight Pet Food Containers by Gamma2

I am so done with heavy, and now expensive, rocket boxes, and am looking for an alternative for dry storage. I am thinking things like toilet paper, GORP, charcoal and other dry goods would be quite happy in these dry containers and be easy to store and lightweight. I have a bunch of "dry" boxes I use, but know from experience, the gaskets always leak, so for important things, you need to ziplock everything to ensure for flips.

We are working on seeing if they would be suitable to the NPS for human waste as they are 0.1055" thick high density polyethylene plastic. I believe it is similar to the coyote design groover. Here is the Coyote system link, Amazon.com : Portable Camp Toilet System : Camping Sanitation Supplies : Sports & Outdoors

I am not sure on the thickness on the Coyote system and wondering if anyone has used the Coyote system II groovers and has some input on them??

I have had great success with West System G flex epoxy for polyethylene repairs on coolers, kayaks and such and can make nice handles with either nylon webbing with some schedule 40 PVC or just use up some of my old hypalon D rings for bomber tie downs.

So what do you think?..... Dry storage for sure with the possibility of a cheaper, lighter DIY groover???
Hard to say on the groover acceptance, they state two things

Quote:
The main river trip toilet system and system used at camps must be the washable, reusable type allowing for the sanitary transfer of waste materials to septic vaults or sewage treatment facilities
AND

Quote:
Washable reusable toilet system designed to contain and store human waste, i.e., welded plastic storage boxes, aluminum boxes, etc.
I think your system satisfies the second quote/requirement as long as the system is "welded" in some fashion. The only issue I would see with the first is the issue of "sanitary transfer of waste materials". They have a lot of control but if they allow groovers to satisfy the requirement than I would wager they would allow a vittle vault as long as its a durable construction.

On the personal level....I would just buy a groover rather than deal with the nasty element of cleanup with a system like a vittle vault that has no water attachment and exit spout. The coyote system is bad enough with its built in corners and crevices but at least you can get some pressurized water into and out of the thing.

We have used the gamma seal lids for many trips and be prepared for the fact that they seem to leak. It could just be the bucket system that we use as it may different than the vault. Definitely line the vaults until you guarantee they are dry. This was a noticeable problem in the Grand and most of our buckets had some water and vapor in them each day from the powerful hits (was in an 18 foot bucket boat). We still use them but double bag everything.

Best of luck.

Phillip
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Old 05-07-2015   #4
 
telluride, Moab, UT
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Thanks for the feed back....

I wonder why the vittle vaults are not passing the inspections, they are not welded, but formed in a mold, but I do not think that is a requirement to be welded the way it is stated in the regs. We actually have a dedicated lid which has the RV clean out and 3/4 hose input so cleaning would be fine.

I like the stable shape as opposed to the eco safe rocket box system I own already and lines the heavy rocket box and always is tippy. For packing, the square shape and the round corners is a big plus for the Vittles. I am guessing the leaking is probably from the gamma lids designed to fit on 5 gallon buckets or problems with the gaskets?? I was planning to 303 the tops and gaskets. I will definitely garbage bag any food or TP I put into them and check them for condensation and pretest them in my hot tub.

Sure would like to find a better DIY system as the Coyotes are $190. I do not like the clean out drain in that they already had to raise the clean out because it can leak and there are no good tie downs. Thanks for the help. I will let you know if we can convince the park to let us use the Vittle Vaults and if not I am going to find out why they do not pass the regulations.
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Old 05-07-2015   #5
 
bighorn1478@msn.com's Avatar
 
lafayette or Grand Lake, CO., Colorado
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I have Vittle vaults for all kinds of purposes and love them. They should not leak like the Gama lids on buckets, which do some times (not at the lid but at the point where it snaps on the bucket). They do not work well for groovers because they are not a shatter proof material, so a little risky for spills, but they work in scat machines just fine. The weight savings is huge and they are easy and fast to get in and out of. Do not over tighten the lids it will stretch the O-rings. Carried trail mix for 18 days through the GC, no leaks, same was true for TP, charcoal and other dry goods carried in other ones. The rounded corners makes them easy to clean.
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Old 05-07-2015   #6
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Hi,

I've used the Vittles Vault on a number of trips, and they work well, as long as you are careful to retain the thin white gasket in an intact condition. (I carry a few extra in my spares box.)

I've tried the Gamma lids also. As noted, they tend to leak at the joint where the lid itself meets the bucket bottom. I sealed that joint on mine with silicone caulk, which solved the problem. But I preferred the vaults because of their square cross-section, and somewhat thicker, apparently more durable material.

Many years ago, I brought some Vittles Vaults to the Grand with charcoal and TP in them, and talked to Ranger Dave about possible groover use. He said he would not approve them for human waste storage because they were plastic, and subject to breakage, particularly if they had been used extensively and might be embrittled by UV exposure.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
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Old 05-07-2015   #7
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,737
I think the vittles boxes are a great idea. Just not the plastic strength or lid sealing that works for me on river trips. I used one vittles box for charcoal storage on one trip, but got splash leaks thru the top.

Did not know about the spare white gaskets IE where to buy them. Maybe double gaskets would help with the leakage problem I have with the vittles boxes.
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Old 05-07-2015   #8
 
telluride, Moab, UT
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Shatter??

Ok, did not think they could shatter. Maybe just for gorp, charcoal, trash and TP. Maybe apples, peppers, cabbage, carrots, potatoes and things in the drop bag to keep the norwalk virus water from the produce, but keep it cool.
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Old 05-07-2015   #9
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Hi Okieboater,

Here you go.

Gamma2 Air Tight Pet Food Containers

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
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Old 05-07-2015   #10
 
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1982
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Sorry, to rain on your parade, but we have two of the vittle vaults and they do not hold up on river trips. They crack around the top of the "body" in such a manner outside of the o-ring. The body is too thin. I grant you, they are handy. I had special hold down straps sewn for them and the ease of opening them single handed is great, but if they leak, what good are they.

Continue your search elsewhere.
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