Flip seat opinions - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 1 Week Ago   #21
 
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor D View Post
I really like some aspects of this style of chair, the mesh to let your backside dry out being a big one. I struggle with the width, though. I am a bit of a lummox, and the side bars are well inside the width of my hips. I could only row my buddy's setup for an hour or so before everything really started to ache. I wish someone would make a wider version.

Yeager (DRE Founder) used to make a wide version of the seat, I'll bet you can ask DRE if they would make you one. If they no longer make the wide covers, you can have one made at ToughRiverStuff.com. If the won't, Colorado Frame Supply in Salida can bend up pretty much anything you desire, Carter the owner is most accommodating, One thing I did note with the wide seat, was you needed something to keep it from sagging when you sit on it, I just stuffed an ethafoam pad in mine when I rowed that cat. I eventually took it off entirely and sat on the cooler cause I couldn't lean back far enough on really big strokes

MNichols is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 1 Week Ago   #22
 
Cottonwood Heights, Utah
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 13
I did reach out to DRE, and they said they could accommodate me, but I got the feeling that they weren't too excited about the idea, and that it would cost me a pretty penny.
I'm using a crazy creek on the dry box, and that's working for the budget at the moment. I will reach out to CFS if I decide to pursue this in the future, though. Thanks for the suggestion!
Senor D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #23
Sponsoring Vendors
 
zbaird's Avatar
 
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,238
Ignore button is there for a reason. We don't want anyone having a coronary in here, at least not until they have bought two Rapid Rungs each!

To add to the data pool, I've gone both routes (though don't have much time on a lowback). Both have advantages and I have pretty much settled on no seat. My seat is sitting up in the rafters. Anyone want to buy an DRE (brand, not style) seat? My reasons are a lot inline with EM and BigWater. I like to move around, let other people row, adjust for different water. With a seat you are locked in rather well, that is the blessing and the curse. You can't lounge around, lay back on your pile in the easy stuff, etc. If someone else rows your boat that is much bigger or smaller they will be uncomfortable instead of being able to slide forward or back on the box. The tall back seat, without question, compromises being able to take big back stokes, period. I have to slide forward so I can lean back and pull which kind of defeats the purpose. High backs do make pushing a much stronger stroke. If you are doing mostly pushing, the high back flip seats are very advantagous. Bottom line is, it is really a preference. If I was going to be the only one rowing my boat and was going to run mostly whitewater day trips I'd probably have a low back seat mounted low as possible and adjust towers accordingly. All my rigs get used by different people (often enough that moving a kick bar isn't a good option) and for all kinds of trips. The pad on box is the most versatile and that is what I need.

Before fully committing I would suggest rowing some boats that are set up differently to see what you like. You may find the confines of a high back aren't for you or that the benefits are. A pad on box may feel to sloppy to you yet might find that leaning back on a gear pile having a sip is a real nice way to enjoy the flats. Weigh out what best and dial in your rig. The big thing is going to be matching the geometry of the you, seat, towers and oar length. I think once you get that dialed in, what you sit on matters less.
__________________
zach baird
http://raftfix.com
http://rapidrung.com
zbaird is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 1 Week Ago   #24
 
GeoRon's Avatar
 
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 875
Thanks Zach for your perfect least offensive perspective. You are 100% correct, find your preference.

I've made the mistake of an unwritten commandment. Don't engage on MB because it is a lose-lose. Old dogs have opinions not to be questioned and I must confess to being one of them old dogs.

With regard to MNichols, everytime I heard DRE from him I'd become overly defensive on account of several occasions he choice to offend that company and my close friends. I have history under that brand dating back to spending a lot of money at DRE in the 1980's with what I considered perfection with regard to a customer first and customer always business. In agreement with MNichols there was based upon my first hand experience a time when DRE was not perfect but with respect to Mike and Christine that brand survived during tough times. If you offend that company and it current owners you will have me to step up to your face and say FU.

With regard to Electric-Mayhem, my contribution to the mentioned thread began after EM stated high back seat cause flips. To be brief, I called BS on that and based upon visual proof EM provided; I stated that that dude had fundamental set up problems not just associated with the seat. That thread digressed to where it was obvious that a frame fitting discussion was necessary. But when further questioned it was determined that the rower was a newbie who likely didn't know jack shit. Hence, asking did you correct this newbies problems the answer was; wasn't my boat. I'll call BS on that any day. Anybody having issues that you know how to solve it is your responsibility to mention and help solve, especially on the Grand. If you thought that that dude was better off without a high back seat then in my opinion throw that chair it in the river. The next time he flipped either he or someone else's life was at risk. The not my problem attitude is a problem.
GeoRon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #25
 
wharf-rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 43
Sorry If my question stirred up some stuff. I’m still undecided on whether I should put a flip seat on my cooler or just keep the low cut nrs chair I’m rocking and as mentioned maybe adjust my oar locks. I would want the flip seat cause it would allow me more gear space and potentially more paddle power?? If I keep the low profile I’m still lacking on prime gear space under the chair. I have a 16ft RMR peak and like to paddle III/IV.. big water runs. 😕
wharf-rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #26
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoRon View Post
Thanks Zach for your perfect least offensive perspective. You are 100% correct, find your preference.

I've made the mistake of an unwritten commandment. Don't engage on MB because it is a lose-lose. Old dogs have opinions not to be questioned and I must confess to being one of them old dogs.

With regard to Electric-Mayhem, my contribution to the mentioned thread began after EM stated high back seat cause flips. To be brief, I called BS on that and based upon visual proof EM provided; I stated that that dude had fundamental set up problems not just associated with the seat. That thread digressed to where it was obvious that a frame fitting discussion was necessary. But when further questioned it was determined that the rower was a newbie who likely didn't know jack shit. Hence, asking did you correct this newbies problems the answer was; wasn't my boat. I'll call BS on that any day. Anybody having issues that you know how to solve it is your responsibility to mention and help solve, especially on the Grand. If you thought that that dude was better off without a high back seat then in my opinion throw that chair it in the river. The next time he flipped either he or someone else's life was at risk. The not my problem attitude is a problem.
I had a whole thing written up in response... but I'm just done. Getting VERY tired of you making ignorant, out of context and personal attacks on people for having a differing opinion. This threads always seem to start disintegrating once you make some declarative and stank filled statement.

But please...keep on telling people what I meant and misconstruing what I said some more though. Have fun...this will likely be my last response to you.

Here is the thread we are talking about...everyone can make up their own mind about it... https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/...box-98887.html
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #27
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by wharf-rat View Post
Sorry If my question stirred up some stuff. I’m still undecided on whether I should put a flip seat on my cooler or just keep the low cut nrs chair I’m rocking and as mentioned maybe adjust my oar locks. I would want the flip seat cause it would allow me more gear space and potentially more paddle power?? If I keep the low profile I’m still lacking on prime gear space under the chair. I have a 16ft RMR peak and like to paddle III/IV.. big water runs. 😕
Don't be sorry... this is just a thing we have to deal with.

All I'll say is that, not having any thwarts but putting a cooler or drybox in that space is basically the normal way setup a raft. Obviously plenty of people have opinions about seat style...and there its completely down to personal preference.

If you use the NRS flip seat mount...


...you can keep your low back seat but have the cooler or drybox and have it still be accessible easily so perhaps that is a way to start. If you feel like you still want to be higher you could have a competent welder add a length of tubing for the mount and raise the drybox or cooler up (or put spacers under the seat so it doesn't flex). You could also put a plywood or 2x4 or whatever your favorite spacer material between the seat and the mount to test out heights first.

Plenty of input and ideas to try in this thread...I'd just say pick one or two and try em out.
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #28
 
GeoRon's Avatar
 
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 875
EM,

Thanks for the link. It seems, read the transcript doesn't work for you any better than another guy we know.

With respect EM, and I really do appreciate and respect you, it confirms my to be as brief as possible summary of the thread.

Nobody fitted this newbie to his boat before pushing him off at Lee's Ferry. If it was a disaster waiting to happen for you in your post-mortem analysis imagine what it was like for this apprentice. Amazing his first flip was at Bed Rock from the way it sounds.

If the seat was too close to the towers it was not the newbies fault, it was his mentors. Yes, need I say it, a high back seat in totally the wrong place is worse than no seat at all. Better to sit on a box if you don't know what you are doing.

I recently apprenticed a cousin-in-law and I spent at least an hour and a half setting up my other boat for him. And this was just for the Upper C between Pumphouse and Dotsero. I set up seat and kick bar. I dialed in his oar towers and oar-in-lock distances making sure blade entry angles matched his 6'5" requirements(I'm 5'8" and shrinking). Sad that someone did not give your newbie the same considerations on your Grand trip.

Hopefully before you dial me out of your life take these words to heart.
Safety is your responsibility!
Research rivers carefully!
Assess your skills properly!
Maintain your equipment!
Consider your team!
Respect team limitations!
Confirm team procedures!
Have fun!

That said, I assume, adios.
GeoRon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #29
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoRon View Post
EM,

Thanks for the link. It seems, read the transcript doesn't work for you any better than another guy we know.

With respect EM, and I really do appreciate and respect you, it confirms my to be as brief as possible summary of the thread.

Nobody fitted this newbie to his boat before pushing him off at Lee's Ferry. If it was a disaster waiting to happen for you in your post-mortem analysis imagine what it was like for this apprentice. Amazing his first flip was at Bed Rock from the way it sounds.

If the seat was too close to the towers it was not the newbies fault, it was his mentors. Yes, need I say it, a high back seat in totally the wrong place is worse than no seat at all. Better to sit on a box if you don't know what you are doing.

I recently apprenticed a cousin-in-law and I spent at least an hour and a half setting up my other boat for him. And this was just for the Upper C between Pumphouse and Dotsero. I set up seat and kick bar. I dialed in his oar towers and oar-in-lock distances making sure blade entry angles matched his 6'5" requirements(I'm 5'8" and shrinking). Sad that someone did not give your newbie the same considerations on your Grand trip.

Hopefully before you dial me out of your life take these words to heart.
Safety is your responsibility!
Research rivers carefully!
Assess your skills properly!
Maintain your equipment!
Consider your team!
Respect team limitations!
Confirm team procedures!
Have fun!

That said, I assume, adios.


Now go back and actually read the threads with no bias towards your argument. You didn't even get all, or even most, of the facts right and made your entire argument on assumptions you made about the situation and my thought process. Every response in that thread was like that. You read what you wanted to read, and then responded to that and not what I actually wrote.

We beat this horse to death...and then beat the horse to a pulp in that thread and you are still pulling this Bullshit and just adding to it.

You've continued to make it your attacking comments personal so, frankly, you can fuck right off if you are insinuating that I don't take the safety, happiness and comfort of the people on my trips deeply to heart just because I didn't want to mess with someone elses boat setup. The owner of the boat was on the trip...and once I knew it was a problem I definitely mentioned it. If they wanted to change it, they could have. That is the most obvious stuff in the world and you are a shitty hateful ASSHOLE for implying that I would knowingly allow someone to continue the trip in an unsafe manner.

You can go to hell with your "appreciation and respect" dude...trust me it is not mutual.

One thing is certain...narcissistic know-it-alls just can't help themselves when it comes to making sure everyone knows stuff and anything counter to that "certain knowledge" fucks with their world view.

Every response in this thread was helpful and considerate until you came in and started insinuating that people didn't know what they were talking about and that they were stubborn and opinionated about stuff they didn't know anything about (pot kettle black much?).

I don't know what is going on in your life that causes you to be like this...but I hope you figure it out. Its gotta suck being stuck in your head with that stuff going on.

I think I'm gonna take Zbairds advice and try to ignore this for a while...probably gonna fail though.
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #30
 
GeoRon's Avatar
 
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 875
It is obvious that your newbie on the Grand did not get proper courtesy. In my "narcissistic" self perspective, I would have definitely noticed issues for a newbie before Bedrock and recommended/completed changes.

I've dialed in boaters on the bank at Jackass and on the bank at Soap Creek fabricating oar rights and seat backs as necessary.

Let me go totally "narcissistic", that is called being a TL! Tough job. Try it sometime.

Goddamn, if you have a newbie please pay some f'in attention to what is going on and not as far down as Bedrock proclaim issues with his seat.

It is likely a high back seat improperly set up to him is something that contributed to a flip at Bedrock, and is something we might agree on. We might also agree that a properly set up high back seats and oars do not contribute to flips. Lastly, we might agree that if all was dialed in before Bedrock that flip might not have occurred.

Step up EM and think like a TL. On the Grand I've been TL thirteen times usually with apprentices for one reason or another. Never did I give a discourtesy to a newbie and not pay total attention up top and I've never had a newbie flip. They were watched and they were coached top to bottom as necessary.

So pay less attention to me if you prefer but I'll never pay less attention to a newbie on the river.

Ron
GeoRon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.