Cordless Inflators, Leaf Blowers, and Pumps, Oh My! - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 07-17-2019   #21
My name isn't Will
 
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Willamette Valley, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Mayhem View Post
....
I watched some fire fighters try to use one of their high pressure oxygen tanks that they use to breath in fires (similiar to a scuba tank) to inflate their raft on the Salt this year and it didn't work very well since its similar to the inflator. Works great for relative small things that need to get up to high pressures but doesn't fill large low pressure spaces very well.
....
Those SCBA cylinders that firefighters use are quite a bit smaller than SCUBA cylinders. SCBA stands for self-contained breathing apparatus. The U in SCUBA is for underwater. The SCBA cylinders are typically fitted with DIN valves, and that lets them operate at higher pressure and thus have a bit more air stuffed in them. And it's just compressed air, not oxygen. Carrying pure O2 into a fire would not be a great idea.

At a rated pressure of 3000 PSI, the "standard" 80 cubic foot aluminum SCUBA cylinder holds about enough air to fill a phone booth, but actually less than 80 cubic feet. High pressure steel cylinders are becoming more popular. With a yoke valve, they typically can hold 3442 PSI, and the rated capacity is what's in the bottle at the rated pressure (an HP 100 holds 100 cubic feet).

I never thought to figure out how much air a raft holds. For grins -- 20" tubes have a radius of 10" or 0.83 feet. That gives a cross sectional area of the tube about 2.18 feet. Ignoring the bow and stern and just considering the main side tubes, a 15' raft has 30 feet of tubes which would mean an internal volume of 65 cubic feet. The aluminum "80" holds 77 cubic feet of air. That air bottle would just barely be enough to fill the boat to atmospheric pressure. The firefighting SCBA cylinder probably holds less, but I'm not certain.

I have an adapter I can put on my SCUBA regulator to fill the tires on my truck if needed. Just to top off uses hardly any air, and even to fill from flat shouldn't take that much since the volume inside the tire isn't that much. I sure will never try it with a bicycle pump again, though.

I can totally see using a SCUBA or SCBA bottle to top off a raft, but it's just not convenient. I'd rather use that air to go diving. You would probably want to leave the bottle in the truck, and then it can be exposed to high temperatures and rupture the burst disc or worse.

I have one of the NRS clip-on pumps. Works great, but since my raft is on a trailer, the wires won't reach. I have a deep cycle battery I often would carry to run the thing, or else trade off using another vehicle battery, but that deep cycle was heavy and awkward. It also had died. I'm looking for a much smaller gel cell that can run the pump to fill one to three rafts to 1 psi and then top off with a K-pump. I went to the battery shop, but they weren't any help. They said I would need to know the amperage. I contacted NRS, and all they could tell me is that it draws 29 amps. TWENTY NINE AMPS!!! That means, yeah, it takes a HUGE battery, but I can run the pump for a really long time with the big battery. Anyone have any success running these pumps on smaller gel cell 12-volt batteries? Because I don't want to own a leaf blower

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Old 07-17-2019   #22
 
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Amette View Post
Those SCBA cylinders that firefighters use are quite a bit smaller than SCUBA cylinders. SCBA stands for self-contained breathing apparatus. The U in SCUBA is for underwater. The SCBA cylinders are typically fitted with DIN valves, and that lets them operate at higher pressure and thus have a bit more air stuffed in them. And it's just compressed air, not oxygen. Carrying pure O2 into a fire would not be a great idea.

At a rated pressure of 3000 PSI, the "standard" 80 cubic foot aluminum SCUBA cylinder holds about enough air to fill a phone booth, but actually less than 80 cubic feet. High pressure steel cylinders are becoming more popular. With a yoke valve, they typically can hold 3442 PSI, and the rated capacity is what's in the bottle at the rated pressure (an HP 100 holds 100 cubic feet).

I never thought to figure out how much air a raft holds. For grins -- 20" tubes have a radius of 10" or 0.83 feet. That gives a cross sectional area of the tube about 2.18 feet. Ignoring the bow and stern and just considering the main side tubes, a 15' raft has 30 feet of tubes which would mean an internal volume of 65 cubic feet. The aluminum "80" holds 77 cubic feet of air. That air bottle would just barely be enough to fill the boat to atmospheric pressure. The firefighting SCBA cylinder probably holds less, but I'm not certain.

I have an adapter I can put on my SCUBA regulator to fill the tires on my truck if needed. Just to top off uses hardly any air, and even to fill from flat shouldn't take that much since the volume inside the tire isn't that much. I sure will never try it with a bicycle pump again, though.

I can totally see using a SCUBA or SCBA bottle to top off a raft, but it's just not convenient. I'd rather use that air to go diving. You would probably want to leave the bottle in the truck, and then it can be exposed to high temperatures and rupture the burst disc or worse.
Thanks for the down low on those breathing tanks. I have a CO2 bottle setup that I use to air up tires and have used it for air tools as well. Compressed air is just not that great at filling large volume applications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Amette View Post
I have one of the NRS clip-on pumps. Works great, but since my raft is on a trailer, the wires won't reach. I have a deep cycle battery I often would carry to run the thing, or else trade off using another vehicle battery, but that deep cycle was heavy and awkward. It also had died. I'm looking for a much smaller gel cell that can run the pump to fill one to three rafts to 1 psi and then top off with a K-pump. I went to the battery shop, but they weren't any help. They said I would need to know the amperage. I contacted NRS, and all they could tell me is that it draws 29 amps. TWENTY NINE AMPS!!! That means, yeah, it takes a HUGE battery, but I can run the pump for a really long time with the big battery. Anyone have any success running these pumps on smaller gel cell 12-volt batteries? Because I don't want to own a leaf blower
Since amperage is a factor of voltage divided by wattage (Ohm's Law), 29amps isn't actually all that crazy. Your typical car battery can provide 500-900amps of 12v current if it needs to. The cable/wires you use are a bigger limiting factor then the battery usually. The starter in most cars is the highest current draw item in a car and can go 200amps or higher. A typical winch that is used for offroad duties can pull as much as 500amps under full load.

I'd say you could probably get away with a small gel cell 12v motorcycle battery. If you have a 7 pin trailer plug setup on your vehicle, one of the pins is "accessory" power and you could probably tap off of that too.

K2, more power to ya for going manual. The last time I had to pump a boat up with a barrel pump it took longer then 10 minutes to do the whole thing and I was totally worn out afterwards. Each chamber with the Makita blower takes less then a minute to blow up and I'm not worn out.
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Old 07-22-2019   #23
 
Louisville, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Amette View Post
Anyone have any success running these pumps on smaller gel cell 12-volt batteries? Because I don't want to own a leaf blower
I just ordered one of these on Amazon to use for my little Coleman mattess inflator. It may not be big enough, but I only need it to deflate and it's only $17 so it's worth a try
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Old 07-22-2019   #24
 
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Western Slope, CO, Colorado
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My Airhead type 12V air mattress inflator draws 11.5 Amps. I use my cigarette plug in the truck for it on my IK. That takes about 30 seconds for all chambers. If I had a need to use a separate battery, I could easily use a battery similar to my motorcycle battery. It is a 6" X 6" x 3.5" AGM. It is rated at 14.5 Amp Hours. It will provide 14.5 Amps for 1 hour. I would not want to discharge the battery below 25% as fully discharging a battery is not good for it. So I could run the inflator for 1 hour. 11.5 over x = 14.5 over .75 ; x= .5948. Another choice is Sealed Lead Acid Batteries commonly used for kid's toy vehicles that are around 10 AH so would be good for .86 hours. So if you have a broken toy truck, or see one at a garage sale, you have a roughly 1 hour inflator battery and a charger for it.


On the other hand, it seems the Makita inflator would fill a larger craft 50 times faster just given it's 473 CFM vs. the Airhead's 9 CFM. However, neither will give CFM at X PSI specs. Since it can be a big time waster to fill big rafts to just inflater PSI's the Makita would likely be a better choice for those.
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Old 07-24-2019   #25
 
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Bend, Oregon
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Ruel inflator. Same as the nrs blast but cheaper. I have had on for two years and it’s inflated too many boats to count.
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Old 07-24-2019   #26
 
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Eagle County, Colorado
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I just picked this up, now need to try to rig some kind of adapter to fit raft valves:

https://www.ryobitools.com/power-too...orkshop-blower

I'll let y'all know how it goes.
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Old 07-30-2019   #27
 
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Eagle County, Colorado
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Originally Posted by WhiteLightning View Post
I just picked this up, now need to try to rig some kind of adapter to fit raft valves:

https://www.ryobitools.com/power-too...orkshop-blower

I'll let y'all know how it goes.
This thing didn't cut it, had good volume, but not enough torque to get past the valves when closed. I bought the Ryobi inflator instead, and not any better:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-18...-203060297-_-N
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Old 07-30-2019   #28
 
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
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Get one of these batteries for the pump. It's small and works like a charm with the NRS blast pump.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Here's the description of what I have to inflate as we go over and come down from passes.
ExpertPower 12V 12AH Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) || LW-6FM12S, LHR12-12, HR1251W, GPS12-12F2 and BP12-12 Replacement Battery Black EXP1212 Absorbent Glass Mat 1 Pack



I just got a tru gel battery for my motorcyle and I think it weighs 6 oz. May try that one later, but it's 4x the cost.
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Old 07-31-2019   #29
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
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Add one fo the Makita Leaf Blower

Year number three on a preowned Makita leaf blower that was compatible with my 18v Makita batteries I already owned.



Fills four outfitter style Vanguard Duckies and one RMR 11" cataraft on a single battery. Top off with my baby K Pump at fifteen strokes a chamber and the Duckies are good to go. The Cataraft at only 11' needs about 50 strokes or so with the small K Pump.


Pushes air through the valves without any extra steps and is fast enough to not be annoying. Deflation is fast as well, but for some reason i hardly ever do it. Just open the valves, start packing the rest of the gear and before you know it the duckies are near empty.



So without a lot of extra effort and at a reasonable level of expense for the convenience it brings, I too am happy enough with the Makita leaf blower.
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Old 08-01-2019   #30
no tengo
 
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Baytopia, Colorado
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Here is what I use super lightweight and fast. Blows up multiple rafts if you give it a rest between rafts (for heat) and keep raft valves open.
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