Grand Canyon Permit ???'s - Mountain Buzz

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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #1
boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
Grand Canyon Permit ???'s

My crew and I are interested in trying for a GC permit for 2021. I have a question on submitting an app for a permit. I understand that if i put in and add all my crew on one app and we win, we can transfer to one of the crew in the event i can't go. I got that.

Let's say the whole crew submits, each without an Alt TL (I get the risks) and we get lucky and two of us draw dates. I don't need two trips, just trying to increase my crews odds. The FAQ's say we have 1-5 days to pay the permit fees. Is this an auto payment? Or are we obligated to pay for both, then cancel? Or is it like a Middle Fork Salmon where you can refuse a permit and turn it in?

In the FAQ's, there is a question about "will i be given the chance to accept or refuse the trip before the trip deposit is charged?" The answer is "Winners have approx 1-5 days to pay their deposits online through their profiles." This talks about accepting but what if you refuse? Is there a peneltay other than losing the newbie 5 points for next year?

Advice appreciated.

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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #2
Duckins's Avatar
Montrose, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 227
If you win a permit in the lottery you have to pay the initial $400 fee to secure the permit within days. If you do not pay for it or decline it they will put your date back into another lottery and there is no penalty/fee.

Sounds like you're confused on the PATL. The permit is not transferable except to one person called the PATL that you must name on the initial permit application, AND the PATL cannot be someone who entered the lottery.

I haven't listed a PATL in the past as all of my "crew" should be putting in for the lottery.

Hope this helps clarify.
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #3
boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
Yes, it does, thank you. Good luck in the lottery.
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #4
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 18
There is one exception to the rule that you can only transfer the permit to the PATL. If you win the lottery and accept the permit and do not name a PATL, but then cannot go on the trip, you can add a "direct family member" as a PATL after-the-fact and transfer the permit to them. But the direct family member cannot have submitted their own lottery application.

I may not have all the details of this exactly right, but it is explained here:
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Unread 3 Weeks Ago   #5
St. George, Utah
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 221
From page 4 of FAQ's.

This was just hashed over on the GCPBA Facebook page. You are reset to 1 point even if you don't take the trip. Just winning resets your points to one.

What would cause me to lose my lottery points? There are two ways for you to lose your lottery points. First, your points will be reset to one if you are listed on a lottery application that wins (i.e. if you are listed on the application either as the trip leader or as a confirmed PATL).

last updated June 5, 2018River and Weighted Lottery FAQs, page 5 of 22lottery points will be reset to one if you participate on a noncommercial trip or are a recreational passenger on a commercial river trip through any portion of the Lees Ferry to Diamond Creek section of the Colorado River through Grand Canyon.
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Unread 48 Minutes Ago   #6
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1
Can someone explain this subdividing group part? I'm not sure I understand what the Permit Office is trying to control.

If your 'group' won two permits, one winner would cancel their permit and join the other winner based on the date they want as a group. Why would the Permit Office be so against each person applying individually?

Is it better to submit separate applications or list everyone on one application?

It is worth keeping in mind that assigned launch dates may not be deferred or swapped. They can, however, be passed to co-applicants from the original lottery application who confirmed as Potential Alternate Trip Leaders (PATLs). So, it is wise to include at least one PATL on every lottery application. For this reason groups should not subdivide and submit multiple applications unless they are willing to win two trips, not go together, and not go at the same time.

How can I maximize my groupís chance of getting a trip?

Here are some suggestions to maximize your groupís chance of success. First, welcome inclusion of those transferring from the waitlist with bonus points - their bonus points will help your application. Second, make sure any application you submit lists at least two confirmed PATLs (they don't have to be the most experienced). Third, if you choose to chance subdividing your group so multiple applications can be submitted, make sure everyone is willing to not go together should more than one of your applications win. Fourth, if you do subdivide, list those with 1 standard point as members of one lottery application and keep them separate, if possible, from the application you submit where all members have 5 standard points.
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