Westwater No Shows... - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-19-2015   #1
ric
 
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Fruita, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1982
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 214
Westwater No Shows...

Hey River friends its happening again,
full private calendar and no shows at the put in ?
If you can not make it Please call office and reschedule so others may get into that beautiful canyon
Thanks so much

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Old 08-19-2015   #2
 
Montrose, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 200
I think this happens this time of year due to the inability to reschedule. People can only make two changes to a WW permit. After that, they are stuck if they are unable or unwilling to go.
Can you even call to cancel after the two changes? I know you can't get a refund, but can you cancel?
There needs to be a better way to get these filled. Penalty for no-show, cancellation option or something.
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Old 08-19-2015   #3
 
Ft. Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 141
think about it from blm perspective. no show = less work, less resource damage, less stress, same amount of money. some people want to the govt to be run like a business, well this is how a business would run things.
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Old 08-19-2015   #4
 
Montrose, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by afox View Post
think about it from blm perspective. no show = less work, less resource damage, less stress, same amount of money. some people want to the govt to be run like a business, well this is how a business would run things.
It is the same amount of work, and most boaters leave the canyon better than they found it. Look at all the tires at the takeout that have been hauled out by boaters. The BLM has to staff the same for a no-show as they do for someone who floats.
If it is about the money, they could:
- Enforce a "no permit for x time" on no-shows and allow cancellation - this would allow the same permit to be sold again.
- After the two allowed changes, allow a permit to be cancelled as above, or transferred to a named individual, but have a fee associated with the transfer.
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Old 08-19-2015   #5
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,261
Life happens folks. I have been on a half dozen WW trips, cancelled twice and was a no-show once because of situations that I could not mitigate any other way (not enough notice to cancel in advance). More and more I try and assume people are doing their best and for the most part I think that holds true. I don't see any major long term harm when a handful of spots, relative the allocated # available, go unused. Kindly remind people that canceling is an option, like the OP did, but I don't see much benefit to assuming this is about money or business as usual.

Penalty for no-show? I am torn on those policies. Life happens to all of us occassionally but I could see penalizing people who are repeat offenders. I have just known too many unplanned events (flat tires midway on drive, deaths in family, sudden work emergency, illness, etc) to ruin the best laid plans to penalize a one time event. I would rather see a few spots go unused then penalize people doing their best.

Phillip
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Old 08-19-2015   #6
 
Montrose, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
Life happens folks. I have been on a half dozen WW trips, cancelled twice and was a no-show once because of situations that I could not mitigate any other way (not enough notice to cancel in advance). More and more I try and assume people are doing their best and for the most part I think that holds true. I don't see any major long term harm when a handful of spots, relative the allocated # available, go unused. Kindly remind people that canceling is an option, like the OP did, but I don't see much benefit to assuming this is about money or business as usual.

Penalty for no-show? I am torn on those policies. Life happens to all of us occassionally but I could see penalizing people who are repeat offenders. I have just known too many unplanned events (flat tires midway on drive, deaths in family, sudden work emergency, illness, etc) to ruin the best laid plans to penalize a one time event. I would rather see a few spots go unused then penalize people doing their best.

Phillip
I agree for the most part, mostly because of how hard it is to cancel. Phone dial before noon on a weekday can be difficult, and if something happens outside of those hours you would have no recourse. If you could easily cancel, and it would free up the permit for someone else to use, then a penalty of some sort would make more sense.
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Old 08-20-2015   #7
 
Riverton, Utah
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 343
Even after you have made 2 changes you can still cancel. You don't get a refund but you can call and let them know you aren't going to be able to use the permit.


I personally like everything about how the WW permits are run. It is about a million times better than the rec.gov lottery stuff. And Annie and the others at the office are always super friendly. Yeah, have to call before noon, but I've never had trouble getting in, especially if I wait until an hour or so after opening to let the people trying to get a permit get done.


DanCan
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Old 08-20-2015   #8
 
Moab, Utah
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 46
Thank you for the thoughtful conversation on this topic. It is important for all Westwater boaters to understand that it is perfectly acceptable and very easy to cancel a Westwater permit. We encourage anyone to cancel regardless of the circumstance or the short notice. Our shared goal is to get folks out on the water!

For now, the best method for cancelling a launch is to call into the Westwater line- 435-259-7012. The phone line is rarely busy after 10:00 am. I am working on developing an email address that will be be another option for canceling at any time of the day or night. Although there has been discussion about Westwater moving to Rec.gov the transition will not take place in the next year. Please feel free to share your thoughts
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Old 08-20-2015   #9
 
Montrose, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 200
I have been a no-show on one of the permits I have had. I had to call it off when others bailed on Friday afternoon for a Sunday day trip. I did not want to run solo at that point due to safety concerns. At that point there was no method to cancel, and if there was, nobody could have picked it up the vacancy.
I think email for cancellation is a great step forward, but it would not have helped my situation.
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Old 08-20-2015   #10
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 134
Quote:
Although there has been discussion about Westwater moving to Rec.gov the transition will not take place in the next year. Please feel free to share your thoughts
Any system that requires you be chained to a phone or computer at a certain time gives an unfair advantage to people that work in an office. It's been discussed before on this site but I feel the Grand Canyon style weighted lottery is the most fair. The ability to pull a permit for Ruby and Westwater together would be helpful.

I know life ain't fair. That said, I think it is best to to have winning a permit be based on chance not gaming a system. I also think this is why there needs to be a penalty for no cancel/ no show. There are people who don't care about the forfeited money and will just stockpile permits and go when it works for them.
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