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Talk me out of a 146DD

28K views 62 replies 26 participants last post by  sonoita 
#1 ·
Hi all,


I'm in the market for a do-everything boat, and the 146DD seems like the front-runner, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something. ~60% of my days will be single days on I-III water with 2-3 anglers (including rower) and a dog on the boat. The rest of the time will be class II-IV western overnights and extended trips. I imagine setting up a frame with decking as well as angling seats that can be removed at times.



The 14.5 Sotar Strike is appealing for fishing, but doesn't look like it would do too well with a lot of cargo in class IV. The classic round tube boats are great with gear and heavy water, but not so much for passenger comfort or wind.



I can't afford a Maravia, and while other companies make diminishing tube boats (Sotar SL, NRS 139D and Otter Dodger XL) I like the Aire warranty and relative closeness of their HQ. Are there other boats I should be looking at?


Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Well, for 1000.00 more (AND the floor comes installed too unlike the AIRE) you would have a boat that will last twice as long, doesn't have zippers or bladders, the floor doesn't hold water, it's Hypalon and not plastic, in MY opinion it's a no brainer..
https://www.nrs.com/product/1085/nrs-e-140-self-bailing-raft
Why are you set on a diminishing tube boat? I've run both, and really can't see a huge advantage truth be told.



My 2¢, your mileage may vary.
 
#6 ·
Why are you set on a diminishing tube boat? I've run both, and really can't see a huge advantage truth be told.



My 2¢, your mileage may vary.



Thanks for your 2 cents. My impression (mostly from the interweb and marketing hype) is that a diminshing tube boat will get pushed around significantly less in the wind. The majority of my time on the water will be spent fishing on the Flathead, which is mellow water and has a pretty reliable upstream breeze. It also has better sight lines to the trouty water directing in front of the angler since you're not looking over a big tube, and more room in the bow for feet/dogs/empty beer cans. BUT I haven't really been in a diminished boat and I've never rowed one (other than a super puma, which isn't really comparable) which is why I'm asking y'all. Sounds like I was maybe kidding myself about the burlyness of Aires.



My impression was that Aire's last a really long time. I won't be super hard on a boat, but I do want something that'll last at least a decade without much headache. Most of the water I'm on is extremely clean so I don't worry about silt in the floor, and my usual takeouts involve backing a trailer with a winch straight into the water, so the drainage issue isn't that big of a deal to me. The floor design does still seem a little overly complicated though.
 
#3 ·
And for $50 more than that, get a hyside, comes with another thwart, slightly longer frame options and more colors than red or blue. Order a hyside and call it a 15 year investment, or order the Nrs and do the same. I have an aire ducky and it’s fun, but cleaning sand and stuff out of the chambers sucks. It’s a deal breaker for me. And the life expectancy of hypalon vs pvc seems like a no brainer on such an investment.
Have we talked you out of it yet?
 
#9 ·
Given that the boat is gonna be trailered, garaged, mostly used on putins/takeouts where you can back a trailer into the water, used for 30-50 days/year in extremely clean water, I'm honestly not too worried about the durability thing. Aire and NRS are the most local boatmakers (ID from MT) so they've got better dealer support and are easier to get to if I need to take it in to get repaired.



So... no, not talked out of it yet but I really do appreciate the feedback. I think I'm now just re-thinking the diminished tube thing, in which case the NRS boats are appealing just because they've got such a great track record.
 
#4 ·
For what it is worth.

You wrote
"I'm in the market for a do-everything boat"

No such boat exists or at least after many decades of looking for it, I have not found a do every thing raft, kayak, golf club etc etc

My advice is select the brand and model raft you like the most now, buy it and get on the river soon as you can.

What you like is the way to go. Most every rafter I have met over the years (my self included) has their own ideas. I own or have owned multiple boats and none of them did every thing as well as I wanted them too do.

Just get the boat you like and enjoy it. Sooner or later you will buy another boat.
 
#7 ·
For what it is worth.

You wrote
"I'm in the market for a do-everything boat"

No such boat exists or at least after many decades of looking for it, I have not found a do every thing raft, kayak, golf club etc etc

I know there's no one boat to rule them all, but I'm likely to have a kid in the next year, and this is probably the only raft we'll own for the foreseeable future. There's no way I'm gonna turn down a Salmon or Selway trip because my boat doesn't have the idea spec sheet, so this boat is going to have to do everything I do.



Reading the input I've got, I guess my question boils down to: How much of a compromise will a heavily-loaded diminishing-tube boat feel like in Class IV? Will I really be missing those fat tubes in the bow and stern?
 
#8 ·
I guess that's really what my question comes down to. I can evaluate the different floor constructions, cost etc, but I really don't know how much the little pinner tubes in the bow and stern effect performance and cargo. I don't imagine ever needing to have the huge gear mountain, even on extended trips, but on the Smith I will have an angler on the stern and cargo back there too...
 
#12 ·
For what you are after the 143D might make more sense. The DD has small tubes in the front but a ton of rocker. I like a flatter boat for fishing and a rockered boat for whitewater. The D bridges that gap. If your goal with the DD is to beat the wind I don't think you'll notice a bit of difference, wind wise from the D that has slightly less diminish but less rocker. The DD was really build as a paddleboat/ whitewater boat. If I had to pick an AIRE and wanted to use it for an all around fishing/gear boat I'd probably go with a D, 2nd an R and 3rd a DD.

If you don't care about the zippers and maintenance, an AIRE will be a good boat. They are hands down the longest lasting PVC boat on the market. I regularly work on AIRE's that are 20 YO and the PVC is fine on most of them that haven't been abused. Treat the boat well; don't let it bake in the sun 365 and it'll do you just fine. Open it up every year or two, clean it out and lube the zippers.
 
#24 ·
For what you are after the 143D might make more sense. The DD has small tubes in the front but a ton of rocker. I like a flatter boat for fishing and a rockered boat for whitewater. The D bridges that gap. If your goal with the DD is to beat the wind I don't think you'll notice a bit of difference, wind wise from the D that has slightly less diminish but less rocker. The DD was really build as a paddleboat/ whitewater boat. If I had to pick an AIRE and wanted to use it for an all around fishing/gear boat I'd probably go with a D, 2nd an R and 3rd a DD.
Maybe consider an Aire 143D.
Lighter than the 146DD and the bow and stern tubes don't diminish nearly as much. Also, much less upturn at the ends since wind is a factor for you.
Aires are burly and will last you a very long time.
Duly noted. The 143D does seem like it might be a better compromise in terms of having a little more boat on the ends, and my thoughts about wind profile on the DD seem off base.

I'd argue that an Aire is easily a 15 year boat. My Trib is going on 10 years, and my 156R was a commercial boat for 6 years, and I've now been hammering it for 7 or 8. I figure it will get to 20 years easily.

But it's not a 30-40 year boat. You'd still have a Hyside or NRS on the river long after your kids or grandkids took your Aire to the landfill.
NRS keeps coming up, and I've seen enough of them that are 15 years old and look basically new that I'm convinced they make a bomber boat. Do you know if that's basically just true of the heavy fabrics, or are the lighter boats they make comparable quality notwithstanding that a lighter fabric will tear/puncture/abrade easier than a heavier one.

I agree. The D series (and DD series) are really wet rides. Awesome for a paddle boat. Probably good for fishing. Not good if you have passengers who want to stay a bit dry except for the big hits.
Anyone determined to stay dry blew it when they got into my boat in the first place.

I don't think many people understand just how clean the water is up here. :)
Hell yeah. Between our water quality, easy putins/takeouts, and general lack of solar radiation I think the Flathead is a pretty cush home for a raft.

There's no "do everything" boat, but for our local water and the occasional multiday, it's really hard to top a 14' raft. Like a Toyota Camry or Labrador, they're not perfect at everything, but they're damn good for almost everything. (15-16' is TOO BIG for daytrips with the family, 13' is too small for multidays).
Yup. I'm pretty stuck on the 14-15 range. We're likely to have a kid and a dog, and 14 seems like about the least we can get away with for overnights

If I were in your shoes, I'd go bigger, 15 or 16. I didn't see anything in your intended plans that demanded a smaller boat. A lightly loaded 15 is so nimble and stable. Take on the bodies and gear for long trips. Run the floor soft and don't let low water stop ya

Add a used 13' next season if you find you need a solo/day trip boat.

The one-boat solution is a trap!
The majority of floating I do is single days with an angler up front and a dog, or maybe two anglers. A 15 or 16 footer is more boat than I want for that, and would require a bigger and more expensive trailer as well. I find that the smallest boat I can get away with is the one I want to be rowing, and I just don't see the need for a 15+ boat, and I'm quite certain that I'd rather be towing/rowing/fishing something smaller

If I could afford two boats I'd own a boat and a snowmobile. If I could afford three boats I'd own a boat and a snowmobile and a dirtbike.
 
#13 ·
For about $2000 less you can get a 14' RMR if you're ok with PVC. You sounded like you'll be trailering so could be ok.

If I had the money I'd get an NRS. If I was trying to save money I'd get an RMR over an Aire for a few reasons including zippers, bladders, and cost.

I have an 8 year old 13' RMR and I roll it after every trip (gasp... the horror!) and it's still going strong with zero issues or indications of problems from rolling.
 
#18 ·
There's too much generalization on what length is good for day vs multi-day and "do everything". You all realized boats have different widths and straight sections too? I've owned 13', 14', and 15' boats. Currently 13' and 15'. My buddy's 14' is wider than my 15'. My 14' was skinnier than many 13' and 13.5's. I think a 14' is a great ID and MT do it all. But I wouldn't rule out 15's and even some 16s. A couple anglers, rower, and a dog and the extra foot of boat is nice. It's really nice if you have a family on a Main trip. You could also make the 14' work and it can be better for skinny, shallow water and moving hole to hole to find fish if not weighted down too much.
 
#19 ·
of all the boats I've ever owned, the one I hated the most was a 14 footer. Why? Because it was the "do-everything" boat.

Could it take 2 passengers? Sure if it's an r3 day trip, or stern and bow fishing stations with no gear.

Could it handle extended self support trips? sure, but even solo, it was never roomy. hope someone else has the group gear...

Could I fit down tight techy low water? yeah, but it doesn't have the agility of a small cat for creeking, or the wide load spreading platform for a low water MFS off the top.

I don't plan to ever own another 14 footer. It was never ever ever best for what I was doing with it.

When I'm solo, I never want a boat bigger than 12-13'. When I have passengers/group gear, I always want the big boat.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go bigger, 15 or 16. I didn't see anything in your intended plans that demanded a smaller boat. A lightly loaded 15 is so nimble and stable. Take on the bodies and gear for long trips. Run the floor soft and don't let low water stop ya

Add a used 13' next season if you find you need a solo/day trip boat.

The one-boat solution is a trap!
 
#21 ·
I'm getting the vibe that most of your use is for fishing. (I'm in the same boat...no pun intended.) I have the first year Tributary 14SB. I believe it's 14'3" with diminishing tubes (probably a little less than the 143D). The boat is 14 years old, and I haven't had any issues. I store it out of the sun, and I hardly ever clean out the floor because we also have clear/clean water here in Northern CA/Southern OR. If I were you, of all the Aires, I'd get the 143D for the reasons cited by others (namely, the lower rocker/wind).

Given your heavy fishing use and concerns about wind, I'd like to raise another issue to further complicate this decision for you :). My boat has the standard floor pocket (holds water). I've found it's a good feature for fishing on really windy days. It keeps the boat stuck and tends to carry momentum/track once you get it going in a direction. On the other hand, when wind is not a factor, the ballast floor is kind of a bummer. Whenever I row a non-ballast floor boat in a fishing situation, it feels a lot more responsive. Honestly, I don't think I've had much experience rowing a sealed floor pocket boat in high winds, but I can imagine it gets squirrely. If I were you, I'd try to get in a couple of the boats you're considering in high wind conditions. You should be able to tell fairly quickly which you like.
 
#23 ·
I have always been a "cat" person. But when the family started going on multi-day trips I started looking at round boats.

I know several folks in the industry and we borrowed many different flavors of boats for multi-day trips to see what we like the best. Mostly Aire with the D, the R, and the DD. We actually tried two others but I cannot remember what they were.

After everything we settled on a 156 DD. We loved the diminishing tubes; the boat was the most responsive of all those we tested. For me the finale was when I somehow lined up on Tappan Falls too far to the left and realized it too late. Except I didn't. I turned the boat and pulled hard. The response was amazing and we slipped down the groove on the right. For my wife, she felt the diminishing tubes and low rocker (see follow up on THAT below) made for a more comfortable ride and less splash.

The DD we ended up purchasing was the earlier version with the diminishing tubes but almost no kick. The DD became very popular and it is my understanding that the outfitters wanted to buy more but wanted a larger kick so their passengers would get a better ride for the money. It is also my understanding that you can still order a DD with the original kick specs.

Anyway, I love my boat. We have taken it, fully loaded with me, my wife, and two kids from the top at Boundary at 1.78' without problems.

I also still have my 14' cat for when I go solo!
 
#29 ·
Huh... I must have misread the NRS marketing blurb... does the expedition series just cover more of the main tubes with the wear material than on the otter?

From NRS:

"Full-coverage HD40 floor armor on the bottoms and sides of the tubes guards your boat from the wear and tear of boulders and beaches."
 
#27 ·
I really like some things about AIRE rafts and their internal bladder system. One example was being able to glue up the inner bladder and sew up the outer material from the damage caused by a shotgun blast thru the floor near the bow. This happened in the middle of a Middle Fork of the Salmon trip. Being able to repair it and finish that trip with that raft - fantastic! Then dropping it off at Aire's factory in Boise for a brand new floor ad bladder at no cost.....very nice. With any other brand raft we would have had to limp it out of there with a flat floor, not possible to repair it in the field.

However, the thing I dislike the most with Aire rafts is the size and weight of them. NRS rafts always roll smaller and are lighter. This weekend I rented an NRS E-142 and my brother used his AIRE 143D and there is just no comparison when they're rolled up and hefted around.

Something else to consider - the NRS thwarts are SUPER EASY to install and remove with their batten system. My experience with AIRE is they're not nearly as easy to install/remove - so keep that in mind if you're switching between fishing with a frame and paddling with friends/family.

I have a 10' self bailing NRS Otter that was made in 1998. I've owned it for the last 12 years and put some good use on it - and it's still going strong. I wouldn't hesitate to snag another NRS raft if I was in the market.
 
#32 ·
The bottom of the NRS E series floor is made out of the same HD-40 (or whatever they call it) material as the wear strips on the bottom of the tubes. It is one layer thick.


Maravia will coat the floor which I would agree would be a second layer, but it is not standard or hasn't been in the past. Maybe they changed that this year. Haven't had a 2019 maravia in the shop.
 
#34 ·
Here's a somber thought that popped into my mind about AIRE, and another reason to possibly avoid them. With the growing awareness of invasive species, it seems like the Aire could be a real liability for transporting critters in the floors since there's not really a good way to dry it out unless you're off the water a long time or pull the bladder.


What do you all think?
 
#40 ·
Barely addressed it. Cut and paste for the most part from stopaquatichitchhikers.net. I did note that they say use hot water to decon the boats, but then AIRE says don't use hot water to clean the boat, will damage the PVC...


Hmmmm....


From that site
Non-Motorized Watercraft

For canoes, boards, rafts, kayaks, rowboats, paddleboats, inflatables, sculls, and other non-motorized recreational watercraft:
CLEAN off visible aquatic plants, animals, and mud from watercraft, gear, paddles, floats, ropes, anchors, dip nets, and trailer before leaving water access. Scrub hull using a stiff brush. Rinse watercraft, trailer and equipment with high pressure hot water, when possible.
DRAIN water from watercraft, sponges, bailers, and water containing devices before leaving water access.
DRY everything five days or more, unless otherwise required by local or state laws, when moving between waters to kill small species not easily seen OR wipe with a towel before reuse.
 
#41 ·
The mussel issue is the first legitimate issue I have ever heard about Aire. I will start checking my boat religiously.

I can't imagine another brand which would still hold air perfectly after 27 years of mistreatment. My boat is seriously scuffed from rocky creeks, is never washed and doesn't seem to hold more than a quart or two of water in the floor when properly inflated. I store it tightly rolled and have NEVER cleaned out the floor - I didn't even know this was a thing. I boat both clean rivers and silty ones.

In addition to being easier to repair on the river, they don't often need it. Only once have I torn a tube and I didn't even know it until I rolled the boat up and put my hand right into the tube. The bladders hold their own when needed.

I'm sure any of the new boats are great, just had to de-bunk this anti-Aire bullshit. Typical MountainBuzz whining. And think of a used boat so you can buy those other toys.
 
#42 ·
The mussel issue is the first legitimate issue I have ever heard about Aire. I will start checking my boat religiously.
I'm sure any of the new boats are great, just had to de-bunk this anti-Aire bullshit. Typical MountainBuzz whining. And think of a used boat so you can buy those other toys.

Really? I don't think this was an anti AIRE thread, it is most certainly an AIRE thread, and opinions were solicited and given. The drawbacks to AIRE's design (and every boat has their very own set of drawbacks) were pointed out, but it wasn't like anyone was slamming AIRE's.

I certainly don't think you debunked anything, as there wasn't any bunk to get rid of, just said you liked your boat and it was an old AIRE. Nothing wrong with that, or any of the other discussion for that matter.
 
#43 · (Edited)
As for not being able to imagine any other boat holding air after 27 years, my 36 year old Avon Pro and my 33 year old Avon Adventurer both hold air for days upon end, my 27 year old Hyside cat holds air like a champ, in fact you'll find that most Hypalon boats will, and do hold air.

And another thing, you'll find that your 27 year old AIRE is built from different materials than the new boats too, so you're sorta comparing apples to oranges... Just sayin..
 
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