Tales of Federal Weirdness - Mountain Buzz

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Old 07-13-2013   #1
Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1896
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 94
Tales of Federal Weirdness

I have done all my boating in Colo, UT, or WY, and thought I knew what the BLM, NFS, NPS could live with. Now, I am headed out of territory, and hearing tales of strange fed requirements.

a) No WAG bags, only systems like EcoSafe for overnight.

b) Maybe firepans, maybe not. I thought you always had to have one for an overnight, but it appears maybe 'taint so.

c) Mandatory contents of patch kits. I carry some Tear Aid Type B for my PVC boat, never used it but thought it was enough. I have now heard I have to carry PVC fabric and PVC glue (I bought a small can of Vynabond, just in case).

Anybody got insight into this?

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Old 07-14-2013   #2
k2andcannoli's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 896
Boating in the west sure sounds a lot different than on the east coast. No one even thinks of regulating much less running overnight trips. I enjoy the lack of regulation but suppose im missing some of that isolation.
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Old 07-14-2013   #3
swimteam101's Avatar
Steamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 353
A) Depends on the river, I would get a real groover (river bank, eco safe ) and use the bags when allowed if that is what you prefer

B) I would bring it . I have always even on rivers that do not require them. (Selway, Upper C )

C) You should get a legit repair kit for your boat.
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Old 07-14-2013   #4
prescott, Arizona
Paddling Since: 1982
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 280
just a plain old rocket box will work for a groover. just directly deposit.

for that matter, any metal ammo type can will work for the nps.

no need to go the expense of a fancy terlet. (personally, i spring for the added expense of a seat, though)

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Old 07-14-2013   #5
fat guy in a little boat
bigben's Avatar
FtC / Rancho del Rio, Colorado
Paddling Since: 8AM
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 409
a) and b) will vary from one river to another.
c) even for day trips you should have some kind of repair kit. for any overnighter you want a serious kit. if you have to do a major on-river repair and all you have is tear-aid, you're beyond screwed.
buy some staybond 2-part adhesive(works great on pvc) and some patch material and the tools to use them properly at least. aire sells an ok patch kit for like $80(don't think it comes with glue tho).
good idea to keep any tools and spare parts for your frame and oars too. hell, i even keep a spare leafield valve and prv in my kit.

..fyi tear-aid type b is for vinyl only, type a works for everything else(including pvc). they also make a version for inflatables only, but it is by now means adequate for major repair work.

..check out this little gem. added it to my kit last year. still haven't gotten an opportunity to use it tho.
Clam Seal Inflatable Boat Emergency Repair Clamp

All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
- Spicoli
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Old 07-14-2013   #6
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,776

There's nothing weird about inconsistency between varying managing agencies either among the Federal gvt. or state agencies. It seems like the norm from my experience. That said, there could be differences due to different ecosystems or the personal experiences of the folks creating the rules in different jurisdictions. You haven't given us much to go on yet other than you're going to one of the 47 states that aren't CO, UT, or WY.

If you tell us where you're going (ie, which agency and river you're dealing with) you'll probably get a better response and some actual info on what you need to have from someone with experience there.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 07-14-2013   #7
Medford, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 235
Call the local agency you will be dealing with it is hard to comment on river regulations unless we know which one it is. There is variation in the regs as you have noted. Personally I am glad there are pack out requirements I seen some disgusting campsites with no pack out regulations. Those river camps get lots of continuous use and it doesn't take long to screw them up. Call the agency.
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Old 07-15-2013   #8
Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1896
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 94
Here's a link to NRS. They think Tear Aid Type B is for PVC too.
Tear-Aid Patch - Type B at NRSweb.com
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Old 07-15-2013   #9
2kanzam's Avatar
Charleston, West Virginny
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 462
Absolutely no requirements here on FS or NPS land. (I believe there is a "boat must have more than 1 chamber" rule for outfitters). We always cathole and do our best to use existing fire rings...I bring a full repair kit as well.

BigBen is wrong about tear aid (as you have pointed out)
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Old 07-15-2013   #10
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Catholing presents many problems in the arid west. The climate and soil aren't conducive to rapid natural processing. And we have limited areas to use between canyon walls. This leads to "discovering" previous deposits, and when user days increase, so do these discoveries. Ruby/Horsethief and the Moab Daily (tho not exclusively because of river runners there) are good examples of this, which contributed to regulation of those areas. WV prob has different conditions that allow for frequent catholing that could work there, but not so much here. I also take the groover into the mountains for our multi-family land camping trips, and it is always appreciated for its convenience and low impact.
And for fun, type catholing into your smart device and enjoy the autocorrect...
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