Rec.gov annoyance - Page 4 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 03-11-2019   #31
 
Alberta, Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 27
MFS

There was a June 2nd MFS popped up and rather promptly disappeared around 5 or 6 yesterday afternoon MDT.

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Old 03-11-2019   #32
 
Darby, Montana
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 25
Middle fork dates

Yesterday at 8PM MST I saw 1 August 16 cancelation and about 5 or 6 in June available. The cancellations were supposed to be available at 8 AM Monday. I was trying to check before 8 AM but I was late and checked at 8 AM and they were gone.
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Old 03-11-2019   #33
 
Woodland Park, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 162
Anyone having trouble logging into rec.gov on a mobile device? My home computer and work computer have no problem. Site won't let me login on my phone. Always says incorrect password even though I have reset it twice. I figure with the random releases I would have a better shot with checking my phone at random times during the day.
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Old 03-11-2019   #34
 
North Powder, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 11
"The Middle Fork of the Salmon is working with the available software resources to create and implement the technology needed to conduct a secondary lottery process to award cancellations in the future."

So, the end result of all this rec.gov ineptitude and justified frustration is that we end up with cancellation lotteries?

I feel like the current system rewards persistence and people who badly want to get on the river (yes, and fast internet, which is a problem). There's a measure of justice in that, as ridiculous as the hoops are sometimes to jump through. A cancellation lottery maybe works at the Grand with a 365-day season. Am I missing something or would a 4-Rivers cancellation lottery be a total disaster?

I'd think the more antiquated and complex the system, the better.
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Old 03-11-2019   #35
Di
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 66
Well I have plenty of motivation to go, a fast internet connection and can be very persistent, but I don't have the kind of job where I can check rec.gov every morning at 8 or hit refresh all day long. So if I don't pull in the main lottery I'm screwed. And as each river moved over to rec.gov, I have pulled exactly 1 permit in the online lottery and I apply for 6-8 rivers every year. Most people in my group have had the same experience. Before that our group was able to get a couple different permits every year and often they were cancellations when you could call the river offices directly.
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Old 03-11-2019   #36
 
North Powder, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Di View Post
Well I have plenty of motivation to go, a fast internet connection and can be very persistent, but I don't have the kind of job where I can check rec.gov every morning at 8 or hit refresh all day long. So if I don't pull in the main lottery I'm screwed. And as each river moved over to rec.gov, I have pulled exactly 1 permit in the online lottery and I apply for 6-8 rivers every year. Most people in my group have had the same experience. Before that our group was able to get a couple different permits every year and often they were cancellations when you could call the river offices directly.
I'm not suggesting that all this clicking shenanigans is good for anyone, and don't have the option 8-5 either. Would definitely favor a call-in, or log in to rec.gov once a week and check a box to keep eligible for that seasons dates. Really anything that requires me to do anything at all. Just think that the most minimum of barriers, like having someone in your party call the river office on occasion, weeds out a huge number of people and is better than multiple lotteries or any completely random system.
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Old 03-11-2019   #37
 
Bellingham, Washington
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 161
The solution for non-confirmation cancellations is really simple: All rec.gov has to do when they run the initial lottery is also keep track of one or two runners up for each date. If someone actively declines or fails to confirm their permit, then the next runner up for that date is awarded the permit. No extra cost, no wasted time, and totally fair to everybody.



After the non-confirmation permits are distributed, I'm not sure what's the best solution for handling cancellations. The problem with random release of cancellations, of course, is that someone's going to use their tech skills to automatically scan for release dates and book them before anyone else has a chance... or offer that service (for a fee) to those of us who aren't tech savvy. This is the reason why rec.gov switched to the daily booking window a couple years back. However, it turned out that the booking window could also be used to transfer permits to someone of your choosing, which is not permitted.



Which is probably why rec.gov is now working on a system for follow-up lotteries. I'm curious how these new cancellation lotteries will work. Might be fair, but it won't be cheap.
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Old 03-12-2019   #38
 
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Newman Lake, Washington
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 141
I was able to grab a Main in July just now. There is also an August 30 up right now.
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Old 03-12-2019   #39
 
denali1322's Avatar
 
Castle Rock, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOR View Post
"The Middle Fork of the Salmon is working with the available software resources to create and implement the technology needed to conduct a secondary lottery process to award cancellations in the future."

So, the end result of all this rec.gov ineptitude and justified frustration is that we end up with cancellation lotteries?

I feel like the current system rewards persistence and people who badly want to get on the river (yes, and fast internet, which is a problem). There's a measure of justice in that, as ridiculous as the hoops are sometimes to jump through. A cancellation lottery maybe works at the Grand with a 365-day season. Am I missing something or would a 4-Rivers cancellation lottery be a total disaster?

I'd think the more antiquated and complex the system, the better.
+1 for not wanting to go to a second lottery. In nearly 10 years of rafting and probably over 100 applications across my group during that time, we have never won a single lottery for any river. However, I get on a river every year due to hard work and persistence in finding cancellations. So to say I'm not enthused on moving toward the same system for cancellation as the base lottery is a mild understatement. If I only got on based on the lottery, I would never have gotten on anything. Ok, perhaps my changes of winning the lottery go up and maybe I've gotten on one river over 10 years, but that's still a crappy outcome.

I sympathize with people who have a job that precludes them checking regularly and/or right at 8am. One solution, since this is an internet solution now, would be hold it at 9pm (or something like that), which should not conflict with most people's schedule. Having said that, surely one person in most people's groups has a more flexible job and/or faster internet. I have personally claimed a permit on at least one of the major rivers several years running so it's not like it takes everyone in your group trying to get it.

I think a 100% lottery system is gonna remove the chance for those of us that want to go badly and are willing to spend a lot of time to get the permit. I also think we'll get more no-shows on the river as it's gonna push more permits to people that don't badly want to go. No one that spends 30 hours over 2-3 months to claim a cancellation is gonna not show.
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Old 03-12-2019   #40
 
Colorado, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 87
Not sure if I was an idiot paying for it, but a Sept 7th main popped up this morning @ 0800 and I picked it up.
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