One time Dinosaur regulation. - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-05-2019   #1
 
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
One time Dinosaur regulation.

As I was waiting to see how many permits I'm going to get I looked through the Dino stipulations and wonder why we can only take one trip during high season. I've heard the reason is that more people have a chance to get on the river. Doesn't make much sense to me. I've looked for an up to date river management plan but the only plan I've found was written in 1979 and it didn't show any justification for this rule. Anyone seen a newer plan or know some other reasons for the regulation?

Has there ever been a concerted effort to persuade the NPS to tweek this regulation? No major changes needed but it would be nice if we could take at least 2- 3 trips in a season or maybe one trip per river. I think being limited to just one permit per year is OK. Can a person go on both a commercial trip and a private trip?

Thoughts?

__________________
When the river calls, the wise one listen.
smhoeher is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-05-2019   #2
 
Andy H.'s Avatar
 
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,575
Yeah, this has been around a long time. IIRC you can go as often as you want in the low seasons. With the added pressure on all permits, I'd be surprised if they're amenable to relaxing the requirement. I'd expect it would apply to commercial and privates alike but don't know for sure, anyone else know?

-AH
__________________
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
Andy H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2019   #3
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,163
Its definitely a bit silly...but I understand why they do it. That is one of the most heavily used section of rivers in the country and is very desirable to go. They are trying to keep it open to as many people as possible.

All that said, the rangers do have the ability to make exceptions and allow people who have been already to go again. In 2017, I did a high use Yampa trip and then got an offer to go on a Lodore trip during High use. For whatever reason, the permit holder was having a hard time getting people with rafts and I told him that I'd been already but that I'd heard the rangers will make special exceptions sometimes. He called the River office and asked nicely and asked nicely and they gave him the go ahead and official permission. Granted, that was the year that they released maximum output from Flaming Gorge for 4 months and a lot of river runners canceled out of fear of the high water...so maybe they were trying to keep their numbers up.

No guarantee that they will say yes...but its always worth calling and asking.

Frankly, I'd rather see the once a year rule in the Grand Canyon relaxed first. You have other opportunities to run Lodore and the Yampa during Low Use season. I did two of each for both the last couple years. I think I did 3 Lodore trips in 2017. I would love to do a Winter trip and Summer trip in the GC.
Electric-Mayhem is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-06-2019   #4
 
Frisco, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 64
I thought I remembered something about the one trip per high season not applying if you picked up a cancellation. Meaning that you could go on a trip, then if you happened to pick up a cancelled permit later in the season it was okay. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?
heyben is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019   #5
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyben View Post
I thought I remembered something about the one trip per high season not applying if you picked up a cancellation. Meaning that you could go on a trip, then if you happened to pick up a cancelled permit later in the season it was okay. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?
Yes...that is true...but you have to acquire the permit within , I believe, 2 weeks of launch date. Further out then that and "once a year" rule still applies to cancellations.

For what its worth, I looked fairly often and never saw a cancelation come up during High use season in the last few years...so you'll have to get super lucky to score one within two weeks of launch date. That might be hard for some people to pull off too, depending on their flexibility and ability to quickly put a trip together.
Electric-Mayhem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019   #6
 
Frisco, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Mayhem View Post
Yes...that is true...but you have to acquire the permit within , I believe, 2 weeks of launch date. Further out then that and "once a year" rule still applies to cancellations.

For what its worth, I looked fairly often and never saw a cancelation come up during High use season in the last few years...so you'll have to get super lucky to score one within two weeks of launch date. That might be hard for some people to pull off too, depending on their flexibility and ability to quickly put a trip together.
I'm still haunted by the mid July one I saw pop up last year that I didn't grab...
heyben is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019   #7
 
trevko's Avatar
 
Fort Fun, Colorado
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Mayhem View Post

All that said, the rangers do have the ability to make exceptions and allow people who have been already to go again.

No guarantee that they will say yes...but its always worth calling and asking.

Frankly, I'd rather see the once a year rule in the Grand Canyon relaxed first. You have other opportunities to run Lodore and the Yampa during Low Use season. I did two of each for both the last couple years. I think I did 3 Lodore trips in 2017. I would love to do a Winter trip and Summer trip in the GC.
I had a similar issue in 2016 (both trips were Lodore) and similar result. I had thought they were going to change it but I guess not.


Yeah, the Tom Martin rule in the Canyon has impacted a few of us.
trevko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019   #8
 
Tom Martin's Avatar
 
Flagstaff, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 916
Hey SmHoener, your question is answered in your note that the DINO plan is 40 years out of date.

DIY trips are not allowed to launch at their full potential, concessions trips that do not launch are not allowed to be used by DIY river runners, 4 trips per day down the Yampa combine with 4 trips a day down Lodore and eight trips daily are joined by the Split Mountain trips for a run to the Ramp.

Campsite locations are based on DINO making camp sites before any river management plan was implemented, and allocations were set after years of DINO trying to boost Hatch and Western while denying DIY river runners permits.

I am with you that the one trip per year in the high use season is a bogus rule in a bogus management plan.

Cordially yours, Tom Martin
Tom Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019   #9
 
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Ever have or seen anyone sneaking onto a trip? Not that I'm advocating this and it's not a good idea but I bet it's not too hard for one or two people to sneak onto a trip. I don't remember seeing a ranger checking everybody's ID at the ramp. Get caught and it will ruin the trip for everyone.

In the mean time we're all waiting for hear about this season.
__________________
When the river calls, the wise one listen.
smhoeher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019   #10
 
Vail, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 38
I have ran both sides and the Yampa put in was more checked than Gates. Def a bigger interest in number of PFD's, required gear and ID checks from every participant. Gates was kinda like, who's got the permit...good luck. But I wouldn't advocate any sneaking on especially since golf cart Pam and Dan at the take out were the real enforcers. Id say stick to the system and your trip participant list. Nobody likes that person who's always trying to sneak one by or cheat the system
RichardJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Isit time for a weighted Lottery for DINOSAUR NAT'L MONUMENT and the GREEN and YAMPA rivh2o Boaters Forum | General Boating Topics 12 02-18-2015 05:46 PM
Well, here is one way to bypass the Dinosaur lottery system... Sagebrusher Boaters Forum | General Boating Topics 21 12-16-2014 06:07 PM
Grand Canyon Regulation Experts buckmanriver Whitewater Kayaking 25 03-14-2014 08:27 AM
First time Royal Gorge (Anyday/Time) tcb-king Kayaking | Trip Planner 2 06-05-2009 09:10 AM
One whale of a good time!! caverdan Whitewater Kayaking 6 01-11-2005 04:51 PM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.