non camping Westwater weekend permit desired. Just need 3 spots downriver racers. - Mountain Buzz

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Old 08-02-2012   #1
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 34
non camping Westwater weekend permit desired. Just need 3 spots downriver racers.

Myself and 2-3 other downriver racers are interested in doing Westwater straight through. No camping, no support needed.

Please email me or post if you have 2-4 permits spots on any Friday, Sat, or Sunday launch in August, Sept, or early early October.

We'll check in with you at the beginning and then we're off on our own once we check in and show "our"/your mandatory equipment. Stupid we can't do a 2 hour through paddle without showing fire pan, wag bags, etc but it is what it is.

We'll mail you payment or pay when we show up.


Jeremy Rodgers
303 641 5762

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Old 08-02-2012   #2
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 614
You don't need a fire pan for when you want to go.

What's the big deal about carrying a WAG bag?

You won't be following the rules if you leave the group behind and it's the PH responsibility that you do so.
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Old 08-02-2012   #3
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,774
Jeremy - I'm not sure you realize it but you're asking a trip leader to violate their permit stipulations by leaving their group. This could result in a fine or being blacklisted on WW. I'm also pretty sure there's a way you can run WW without lugging a heavy firepan - lots of kayakers do self-support day trips on WW all the time. You may want to shoot Jennifer at the BLM Moab Field Office a personal message asking about how you can do your trip legally - she monitors MountainBuzz and posts info relevant to her jurisdiction under the name "BLM Moab." Have a good trip, -- AH
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 08-02-2012   #4
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 34
thanks guys. I will call her. The issue is that there are hardly ever permits because some trips don't care that only 1/2 of their permits are being used (because they can afford to pay for unused spots) or have last minute no shows. It is what it is. The rules were made with multi day rafts in mind.

I don't need a frying pan because our feet never touch shore and a p n j sandwich on the bottom flats do just fine.

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Old 08-02-2012   #5
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 614
There are five private launch permits a day during the summer season good for up to 25 people each. I know you'd like to think that each person could do the trip separate from the others on their permit, but that's against the rules. Unused spots don't matter except more is being paid for the permit than necessary.

I understand your thinking that you don't have as much of an impact if you're only spending a few hours doing the trip, but that's the same argument made by those who would like to use motors and is made in the Grand Canyon.

The issue seems to be that you are someone who doesn't like rules that are there so we can share a resource without overusing it.
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Old 08-02-2012   #6
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 34

Your right. We, many kayakers in the mountainbuzz community like rules that make sense. To that extent, we don't like rules that don't represent the day trip kayaking community as a whole and you along with our many rafter colleagues in the mountainbuzz community don't mind the rules that represent the multi day rafting community as a whole. It's no secret that it's a hassle for the rangers to have more launches in a day and surely they are spread thin as it is to have up to five launches a day.

Before you look down your nose as being environmental derilicts and rule breakers, perhaps you should ask yourself what percentage of these current "rules" represent the input of multi day rafters vs single day kayakers. It seems most of us would agree the current rules caters 90% to the 15 person rafting group and not the 3 person kayaking group.

The difference is most kayakers, myself included, would never show up 15 years ago at a permit hearing and organize a common sense voice that there should be 3 single day trip kayak permits per day and 5 multi day raft trips per day then assess environmental impact so that 1 permit isn't wasted on 3 kayakers who won't ever touch the shore.

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Old 08-03-2012   #7
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 614
I'm not a rafter and obviously the rules don't bother me.

I only go to WW once a year during the shoulder seasons and haven't found getting a permit too difficult even on a weekend.
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Old 08-03-2012   #8
Riverton, Utah
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 348
JR, there are worse things to be called that a "rule breaker".

Single day multi-raft groups often get pretty strung out... I've had trips where the 4 rafts with me ended up getting to the takeout as much as an hour apart from each other.

I just moved my permit from Aug 17 to someone else here on Mountain Buzz... if he's interested he can pipe up and help you out. If I was a trip leader on a permit I think I could figure out a way to include you on my trip, but I don't have any more permits for this year.

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