new to forums / building a cat frame - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2013   #1
 
somewhere, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
new to forums / building a cat frame

hi everyone, been browsing the forums for a long time getting info.and finally decided to sign up.so i just started rowing rivers about 2 months ago in my cheap fishing pontoon. iver done some 12hr floats in the main wilamette and lower mckenzie, but dont trust my setup to hold up to actual white water and i want something i can carry someone on. i wanna be able to do the mfnf willamette and upper mckenzie when my rowing skills get better, for fly fishing. and like everyone im short on cash but have the ability to bend / build my own cat frame with 1"X.065 seamless steel tubing and have my dad or a friend weld it for reasonably cheap ( wholesale tubing prices ). i think i want a 14' cat maybe the rmr tubes. but have never been in a cat and have nothing to design it off of. or i could build it like on the games with frames post.do anyone have any preferences on welded vs modular. and do i have to have the tubes to design the frame? and would 1"x.065 seamless tubing be too weak.
thanks for any input, and sorry for the long post

riverjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-05-2013   #2
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,851
You'd probably enjoy 14' tubes if you want to do multidays. You can do multidays or overnights on 12' tubes if you pack light.

If it's mostly for day trips, a 12' cat would be more fun.

I'm new to cat boating, too. Been kayaking 15 seasons, rafting 11, just took my first cat run yesterday. It's a blast. Waaay more maneuverable than a raft, not quite as maneuverable as a kayak, but doesn't take nearly as much skill.


I'd go with 1 1/4" tubing for a bit more stiffness/strength for your crossbars, or double up your 1" for more strength (make a tunnel hull/truss between the tubes).

0.065" would be a very appropriate wall thickness for steel.
I built mine from 1 1/4" EMT conduit, which is about 1.5" and ~0.065" wall. Standard precautions apply about welding galvanized.

Here's some info on painting:
https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f...tml#post330040

These are sick:
Vortex Pictures
[img]http://www.canyoninflatables.com/wat...ex/large/3.jpg[/img]

So are these.
MADCATR Creations - Custom Fabricated Stainless Steel and Aluminum Rafting Equipment


Best ideas are:
Tunnel Frames
Spread out foot bars (as opposed to both feet together in the middle)
Adjustable oar towers
Folding Oar towers
Scout bars/footrests

You do not need the tubes to design the frame.

My preference is modular for a cargo boat. Fullsize and fully welded is just too huge for storage or transport.
Could go breakdown or welded for a play frame...your call. If you want a lot of fine details, it's probably easier to go welded instead of breakdown/modular.
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013   #3
 
cataraftgirl's Avatar
 
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,344
The one thing you might need to have the tubes up front for is depth of your drop rails. If you know your tube diameter and where the D-rings are placed that helps a lot. Too deep on the drop with higher placed D-rings on smaller diameter tubes can cause problems....not enough room for proper strap placement.
Example - I had 14 X 22 tubes. I was using a welded steel frame with only a 9 inch drop, and that was fine. Switched to an NRS frame with 11 inch drop, and the drop rail was very close to the D-rings, which made getting the strap tight enough a problem. If it were me, I'd get the tubes first. It would suck to spend a lot of time building a frame and then find out that it doesn't quite fit the tubes you really want. Especially if you're on a budget, and your tube choices might be limited.
cataraftgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-05-2013   #4
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by cataraftgirl View Post
The one thing you might need to have the tubes up front for is depth of your drop rails. If you know your tube diameter and where the D-rings are placed that helps a lot. Too deep on the drop with higher placed D-rings on smaller diameter tubes can cause problems....not enough room for proper strap placement.
Example - I had 14 X 22 tubes. I was using a welded steel frame with only a 9 inch drop, and that was fine. Switched to an NRS frame with 11 inch drop, and the drop rail was very close to the D-rings, which made getting the strap tight enough a problem. If it were me, I'd get the tubes first. It would suck to spend a lot of time building a frame and then find out that it doesn't quite fit the tubes you really want. Especially if you're on a budget, and your tube choices might be limited.
Fair comment.

Mine are 14' x 25" Maxxon tubes, and my 12" drop rails barely clear the D-rings.

Worst case, ask around about D-ring placement on here for the type of tubes you prefer and people could measure theirs...do it before winter hits and folks store their tubes! ...or ask the vendor.
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013   #5
 
somewhere, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Thanks for the replys,I like the idea of the modular frames because I live in a duplex with a small garage.and it seems like it would be nice to be able to add bays / change the configuration especially since I don't know how I'd like mine setup.it'll mostly be used for flyfishin, but I want the option to be able to carry a passenger for day trips. And the tubing I'm talking about would be hyd steel tubing with an actual 1" od.does tubing get stiffer in larger diameters even tho it has the same wall thickness? nd I've read so much stuff on the internet about tubes that it hard to decide which tubes will be good for summer time fly fishing,and taking someone on the water.like I said I'm new to this so I'm sure I won't be doing and crazy whitewater for awhile.thanks again
riverjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013   #6
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverjunkie View Post
hyd steel tubing with an actual 1" od.does tubing get stiffer in larger diameters even tho it has the same wall thickness?
Very much so!!!

1.5" is over twice as stiff as 1".
2" is 4x as stiff.

A pop can is stiffer than 1", but you need a minimal wall thickness...for ding resistance. Ding that pop can and your 1" x 0.065 is now a lot stiffer!!

Quote:
I've read so much stuff on the internet about tubes that it hard to decide which tubes will be good for summer time fly fishing,and taking someone on the water.like I said I'm new to this so I'm sure I won't be doing and crazy whitewater for awhile.thanks again
If you don't do a tunnel frame, 1" would be fine.
Build it and learn from it. Go fishing!
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013   #7
 
somewhere, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Lol,thanks again mtr4runner. Now you got me thinking bout using 11/4. Lol which I could still probably build the welded frame for under$400. I was just trying to be a cheap a$$ and build it for under 200. Btw how do you like you're maxxon tubes? The only reason I was thinking bout going 14ft was cause the Rockymountains only came in 14' & 16'. Nonetheless whichever route will be a good experience and test of craftsmanship. Does anybody have some frame dimensions for a 12 or 14ft cat.
riverjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013   #8
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,851
Just a fishing frame? Go cheap ass. You need to start somewhere. If you know you might build again in the future, don't worry so much about this one. Do your best and learn from it. Maybe it will be great. Unless it's really poor, it will at least be good.

Rockymountains are welded PVC and 5yr warranty.

Maxxons are glued PVC and no warranty, but they're dirt cheap. They come in 12', 14' and 16' flavors. My 14' tubes were only $800. It was an inexpensive way to get a taste for cat boating. With an NRS floor, I'm into my entire rig for ~$1,100 (I had oars/oarlocks).

I set my inside tube spacing based on the NRS floor--40.5" from outside loop to outside loop. Tubes went out from there. With 25" tubes, I'm:
40.5" + 25" = 65.5" center to center
65.5" + 25" = 80.5" outside to outside.

Tube diameter is more important for frame dimensions than tube length.

Frame length really depends on how much (or how little) storage space you want on your cat.
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013   #9
 
somewhere, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Did you go with the extra diameter maxxons? And does anyone know how far I would want the drop rails / floors for my cat to be if it had say 22"diameter tubes? was thinking 11" should be half way and then minus ~3 -4" for the straps to cinch down. Also does it matter if the frame goes over the outside of the tubes. Srry for the bombardment of questions I'm just trying to prepare myself,so I can do this right. And does anyone have any good sites for getting the rest of the accessories like seats,oars,oarlocks and everything else I'll need. Thanks again
riverjunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013   #10
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,851
Yes, I have the 25" dia Maxxons.


Your cat floor will get shallow quickly. Losing 3-4" will be too much if as little as 2" will do.
Pencil in 9-10" drop and check if your intended tubes/drings will accommodate that.


You get what you pay for with accessories. NRS has everything, but not necessarily the best of everything. Other vendors have more limited selection of higher quality goods. Several vendors for custom soft goods (bags and straps) and dryboxes.
MT4Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Key clamps for frame building? Ben Bade Kayaking | Gear Talk 1 04-03-2013 11:34 PM
Question about building a rowing frame kiltedcelt Kayaking | Gear Talk 13 03-22-2012 12:29 AM
A different approach to building a double rail frame. HPMG Kayaking | Gear Talk 49 04-30-2010 06:19 AM
building fishing frame for raft tmcilravy Rafting | Gear Talk 3 03-06-2010 09:51 AM
Inspired by Chip, I'm building a cat frame BmfnL Kayaking | Gear Talk 4 02-22-2010 04:35 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.