Madcat Frame options? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-06-2012   #1
 
washoe99's Avatar
 
Helena, Montana
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Madcat Frame options?

I'm finally breaking down and ordering a Madcat frame for my 14' Wave Destroyer tubes but have a few questions. I'm in Montana so aside from the in-state runs I do the MFS, Lachsa at all levels, etc.

- frame width - I have always run 72" NRS frames and so have plenty of 10' ores but wondering if i should consider something more narrow?

- breakdown vs 1-piece - the photos of Davids break-down system look way sweeter then your usual pins but whats the tradeoff for going breakdown besides the decreased structural integrity?

- powder coating - is it true that the prep for powder coating decrease the structural integrity of the aluminum? if so what are the other options?

is there anything else i have missed that i should consider before finalizing my order?

thanks for any and all input!

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Old 08-06-2012   #2
 
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at my house, Montana
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You should be asking dave, not the buzz. There is no loss of structural strength the way he builds break down framea
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Old 08-06-2012   #3
 
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I've been debating some new frame design issues myself. I'm planning for 34" between tubes and 64' total width. Frame will mostly be used for day trips of Class 3 to 5 and short overnights with one person. Will be using 9' oars. I will keep an older frame for when I want wider, more gear hauling. Will be also be 64" long, just long enough for a drybox behind me.

A breakdown frame will negatively affect at least two of the following three items: strength, weight or price. So the debate is whether it is worth it for the rivers you run. In Montana it would be nice to fly into the Upper Middle Fork of the Flathead, in Colorado it is not as much of an issue. Always have the option of packing in a small R2 with no frame or IK. Not sure how Dave does his breakdowns or what he charges extra. I know people with breakdown frames that have never used that feature.

I'm debating the foldable oar towers. I'm coming from a DRE frame with lots of adjustments and removability which was nice when it was new and also when I was sharing it another rower. But at this point I have all the adjustments dialed in and do not want things that can move or come loose, hence an all welded frame rather than pipe and fittings. I understand the foldable towers are great for stacking boats and winter storage, but those have not been big issues with my existing frame.

The off season started early this year in Colorado, so I'm already planning for next year and a new frame.
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Old 08-06-2012   #4
 
Pugetopolis, Washington
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New (frame)gear? That's not the Rich I know! You've changed...

Foldable Oar towers have been the most rewarding option for me,so far. Besides the customized dimensions,and overall light weight frame. Mine is a Payette River Equipment frame btw. You've stacked your boat on mine before,so you know how much easier and hassle free it is for shuttling boats(w oar frames) on day runs. Do it for your partner! I wondered about the limited (no)adjustability of the oar towers,on the welded frames,at first too. But so far it's never been an issue. As long as I can slide my seat on the rails,I'm good.

Regarding breakdown frames,it sounds good and all but will you ever really use that feature. Seems like it kinda depends on where you live and how 'remote' you like to get. If I lived in Whitefish I'd probably consider it a lot more....
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Old 08-06-2012   #5
 
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Rich- the demo frame i had from dave was breakdown. It was beyond bomber, suitable for solid class v. You would have no idea it was breakdown. Heavier though.

Folding oar towers are nice so when you crush one in a flip you can just swap your spare in, you don't have any frame welding to do.
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Old 08-06-2012   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhowemt View Post
Rich- the demo frame i had from dave was breakdown. It was beyond bomber, suitable for solid class v. You would have no idea it was breakdown. Heavier though.

Folding oar towers are nice so when you crush one in a flip you can just swap your spare in, you don't have any frame welding to do.
No doubt, the frame was bomber and suitable for Class 5, but the breakdown feature adds either: 1) a weak spot 2) weight or 3) $.

The DRE frames also allow quick and easy replacement if you break one in a flip. Ironically I broke one on Gore and was not carrying a spare, none of the 3 cats were carrying a spare. Not sure many people on the Lochsa wee carrying a spare on their boats either. Seems a welded tower with 2-3 points of attachment would reduce chance of breaking.

Barry, I'm not changing, I'm evolving. SYOTRio
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Old 08-06-2012   #7
 
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I take a spare tower on anything stepping up iv+. Day runs it stays in the car. I even have it in the van on the lochsa, but just because i keep all my gear together since i never know where i am going to run ( really, the lochsa is not a tower threatening river) i always take a tower on multidays.

The bar that is the tower pivot point continues back to the rear of the frame. That's got a bolt already, and i think on the breakdown it may be longer or otherwise configured to hold the entire thing together through compression. U definitely sacrifice weight and price. There are 3 main sections - font, seat, rear and then connected with bars and held under compression. They really are quite a masterpiece!
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Old 08-07-2012   #8
 
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Lincoln City, Oregon
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Folding or removable oar towers are like sex,electricity, driving etc. Once you have had them, you are not going back. My AL, DRL one piece custom design is lite weight & bomber tough. New Generation frame designs are a drastic improvement .
I have had breakdown frames in the past for fly-ins.
Cost benefit ratio was poor compared to cat boat frame weight to strength to $ , ratio for number of uses or size that will fit in a light aircraft(185-206 Cessna) Or be strapped to a Wing strut. (modular ?)
Powder coating frames has only positive effects to you.
Good Luck , you will be glad you pulled the trigger on this purchase !!
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Old 08-07-2012   #9
 
Corvallis, Oregon
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If you aren't against slightly used madcatrs, I know people have been trading them in on the Vortex frame CWI is making, my cousin got one used for a pretty good deal, there were 4 sitting there last time I stopped to get drybags. I believe they were 575? A good way to give one a go and decide if you need a breakdown or not. Cheers!
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Old 08-07-2012   #10
 
Lemooreq, California
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"Powder coating pre-heating destroys the temper of the substrate aluminum and renders aluminum frames in an annealed state. This means a 20-40% reduction in strength."
Raft CataRaft Aluminum Anodizing & Clear Acrylic
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