Looking to hire help for self guided rafting trip - Mountain Buzz

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Old 01-03-2019   #1
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3
Looking to hire help for self guided rafting trip

We raft the lower salmon almost every year. My family has done this trip multiple times and not interested in a guided trip with an outfitter. However, we wouldn't mind not having to do some of the work ourselves! I am interested in hiring someone to row a "gear raft" for the trip. Any ideas on how to go about finding someone that might be interested in this?


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Old 01-03-2019   #2
MT4Runner's Avatar
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,052
Read the regs, but I'm pretty sure if you hire someone to go on your trip that it becomes a commercial trip and your private permit is no longer valid.

...I thought I'd read it somewhere at some point, but I could be wrong.

Call an outfitter and see if they'd do it. If it jeopardizes their license, they should tell you and won't do it.

I do understand what you're saying. It's really no different from hiring a hunting guide when you have a permit. You have the permit, but are hiring a guide for their hunting expertise...as opposed to a outfitted trip where you get your tag through them and they have all the equipment, too. ...I just don't think the same logic applies to permitted river trips or we'd hear more about it.
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Old 01-03-2019   #3
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 210
Yes, this is illegal and will get both you and your pirate guide in legal trouble.

Most of us just ask friends to come along to share the effort and the experience.
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Old 01-03-2019   #4
kayakfreakus's Avatar
Steamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,042
I thought the lower salmon was not permitted and therefore this would be allowed? It is an illegal request on any private permitted section yes, but on other sections I would not think so and a great fun way to make some extra cash pushing some rubber down a river.
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Old 01-03-2019   #5
MT4Runner's Avatar
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,052
Duh, you're correct, kayakfreakus. As you noted, the OP asked about the lower, which is not permitted.

Yeah, call an outfitter, probably legal.
Or not quite legal (labor laws) but call an out of work guide and pay them cash.
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Old 01-03-2019   #6
summit, Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 250
No permit to lose, but I'm pretty sure hiring a gear boat driver would still be illegal. You're not allowed to earn income by providing services on public lands/waters without a permit from the USFS, BLM, NPS, etc. Not saying it's right or wrong or that people don't do it every day anyway....just that it's most likely against the law.
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Old 01-03-2019   #7
Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 148
If it’s unpermitted then a “rent a guide” situation from any of the local outfitters would probably fit the bill.
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Old 01-03-2019   #8
athelake's Avatar
Newman Lake, Washington
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 175
Self issue permits are required for any overnight trip on the Lower Salmon.

As of 2018, there are no private permits required on the Lower Salmon River from Vinegar Creek to Hammer Creek.
However, self-issue permits are required for all private trips below Hammer Creek from July 1st – Labor Day and
all overnight trips year-round. You can get a self-issue permit at White Bird Gravel Pit, Hammer Creek, Pine Bar,
Graves/Rock Creek, the BLM office in Cottonwood, or online on the Idaho BLM website (https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreat...tivities/idaho). This permit also authorizes use of the Snake River in Hells Canyon
below the mouth of the Salmon River if your trip originated on the Salmon. This self-issue permit will have all of the
current rules and regulations required for a river trip through this section.

Guides must be registered and licensed.

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Old 01-04-2019   #9
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1970
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 390
Guiding. Providing services or assistance (such as supervision, protection, education, training, packing, touring, subsistence, transporting people, or interpretation) for pecuniary remuneration or other gain to individuals or groups on National Forest System lands. The term "guide" includes the holder's employees and agents.

As pointed out by others, Guides on Federal land, (permitted or not) are required to have a special use permit/license for the areas in which they are guiding. The definition of a guide is pretty broad and basically includes anybody you are providing compensation to (money or goods). Significant fines if you get caught. No matter what you do, its not something you want to post on Mountain Buzz
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Old 01-04-2019   #10
the grove, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,804
There is a flip side to this as well. Anyone that would take the "job" that is unlicensed and has no insurance to cover guiding, runs serious risk of losing all of their monetary assets if, god forbid, someone drowned or was seriously injured, and blame was placed on them. The legalities of this situation are much different then if you are on a 100% private trip.
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