Is it safer to raft with a frame? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 10-22-2018   #1
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Is it safer to raft with a frame?

Is it safer to raft with a frame? I went on a WW rafting trip last year and was in a raft with no frame. We totally flipped over and I'm wondering if that contributed to it.

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Old 10-22-2018   #2
 
Missoula, Montana
Paddling Since: 1992
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You flipped because your guide flipped you. Rowing vs paddling, both will flip, both will surf, both will be safe or dangerous. Frames allow for more gear, paddles allow for more people. Aside from that distinction, it's 95% about the driver(s).
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Old 10-22-2018   #3
 
Boise, Idaho
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not really, whether you flip or not is mostly dependent on your line, speed, and weight distribution...not the presence or absence of a frame.
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Old 10-22-2018   #4
 
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Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seantana View Post
You flipped because your guide flipped you. Rowing vs paddling, both will flip, both will surf, both will be safe or dangerous. Frames allow for more gear, paddles allow for more people. Aside from that distinction, it's 95% about the driver(s).
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Originally Posted by Grifgav View Post
not really, whether you flip or not is mostly dependent on your line, speed, and weight distribution...not the presence or absence of a frame.

Yeah, has nothing to do with the presence or absence of a guide.

Har har.
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Old 10-22-2018   #5
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Got it. Thanks!! The other rafters did seem to indicate that it was something that the guide did.

Another question, on that trip I fell out twice. I never seemed to get my footing right. Not sure what I can do to prevent that. I was a little gun shy when it came to paddling when we got to the real treacherous parts. We were supposed to be doing a tame 3-4 but due to water levels it was more like a 4-5. Now I fear I will be even more gun shy if I do it again.
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Old 10-22-2018   #6
 
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Kalispell, Montana
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It's not always the guide, but it is often the guide.

Sometimes there are lines where the river can surge (or not) and maybe you flip (or don't). Some lines are more likely to cause a flip, some are less likely to cause a flip, some are unavoidable, many are avoidable.

It's really hard as a guide to single-handedly flip a raft. You need the river to help!


All levity aside, the first flip is generally the scariest. After you flip again you'll see that it's more of an inconvenience than actually cheating death. Your guide probably wasn't scared..it's not that they're immune to the fear, they have probably gotten used to flipping in spots like that and take it in stride.

BTW, if your guide flipped and fell out, then they generally owe the other guides a case of beer when they all get back to the boathouse.

and another aside: welcome to The 'Buzz. Most of the folks on here are private boaters. there are a few commercial guides and guests...but most of us run our own boats or on boats with friends. Our opinions may be slightly different from those of commercial guides.
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Old 10-22-2018   #7
 
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Thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
It's not always the guide, but it is often the guide.

Sometimes there are lines where the river can surge (or not) and maybe you flip (or don't). Some lines are more likely to cause a flip, some are less likely to cause a flip, some are unavoidable, many are avoidable.

It's really hard as a guide to single-handedly flip a raft. You need the river to help!


All levity aside, the first flip is generally the scariest. After you flip again you'll see that it's more of an inconvenience than actually cheating death. Your guide probably wasn't scared..it's not that they're immune to the fear, they have probably gotten used to flipping in spots like that and take it in stride.

BTW, if your guide flipped and fell out, then they generally owe the other guides a case of beer when they all get back to the boathouse.

and another aside: welcome to The 'Buzz. Most of the folks on here are private boaters. there are a few commercial guides and guests...but most of us run our own boats or on boats with friends. Our opinions may be slightly different from those of commercial guides.
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Old 10-22-2018   #8
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Something not mentioned: When (not if) a raft with frame flips, you have oars, oar towers and a heavy frame potentially landing on top of you.
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Old 10-22-2018   #9
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Weld county, Colorado
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Allot of us row because we are alcoholics with no friends. You don't need as many people to row and there are less people to share your beers with. A friend of mine once said "you can't give away a raft trip", and he was right. You'd be surprised how many people you will ask to come and the reasons they have for not coming. The main thing you hear is "I wish you asked me two weeks ago". The reason this sucks is 2 weeks ago there was no water and without high water I don't need the extra weight in my boat or the extra paddlers. (I like paddle assist). Paddle boat is fun but you need a good group of like minded people that arnt going to flake and go rock climbing or something.
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Old 10-23-2018   #10
 
Denver, Colorado
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Allot of us row because we are alcoholics with no friends. You don't need as many people to row and there are less people to share your beers with.

Haha
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