GCPBA Poll - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-26-2012   #1
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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GCPBA Poll

GCPBA's mission is to ensure the ability for all to obtain, on an equal and timely basis, an opportunity to experience a float trip through the Grand Canyon while protecting the resource and serving as the voice of the private boater.

Pursuant, to that mission, the GCPBA Board wants to know what boaters think, and is seeking information to help determine the short term goals and focus of discussions. The Board also wants to determine what, if any, issues may need to be addressed at the next CRMP review, and to determine the long term direction of GCPBA.

Whether you are a member or not (and we'd certainly urge you to consider joining) we are asking you to participate in our online poll. It consists of a list of 13 rather broad range topics. We are asking you to identify the 4 topics that you feel are the most important to you.

After we get the results of this ranking, the Board plans to follow up with a more detailed poll of specific questions that are focused upon a few of the most important items. Plesase click on the link below, and participate in the GCPBA survey. We, will of course, share our findings.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/SLZB7ZM

Thanks for your participation.

Rich Phillips, Secretary, GCPBA

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Old 08-26-2012   #2
 
Tom Martin's Avatar
 
Flagstaff, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 928
"I have trouble paying much attention to how you think"

Hi all, Just so folks know what the Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association President thinks about membership opinions....

Was I bragging? Far from it...

First I was told "we want to know what you think" and after speaking up, I am told " I have trouble paying much attention to how you think we should look at things".

And So It Goes... yours, tom martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Wally Rist [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 6:23 PM
To: Tom Martin & Hazel Clark
Subject: Your attempted post

Tom,
As moderator I am not going to allow the post you just attempted.

It is not being posted for the same reason you are on moderation, which is the use of our list to attempt to discredit GCPBA by posting repeatedly
untrue accusations.. Besides not being true, its a dead issue. Most of us
have moved on. I suggest you do as well.

If you are so dissatisfied with GCPBA why do you brag that you are a lifetime member.?

As far the rest of your comments, they are full of your opinions. We are not interested in your interpretation of wilderness, equitable access, etc. We are interested in what is important to our members and think we have made a good first step here. You apparently ignored the part about follow up questionnaires about the most pressing issues.

While you referenced our mission statement you apparently skipped over the poll introduction which reiterates our dedication to it.

You are not on the GCPBA board so I have trouble paying much attention to how you think we should look at things. You are only one tiny singular voice out of many.

I am sorry the world is not run as you think it should be.

wally

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Martin [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 4:49 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: [gcpba] GCPBA wants your opinion......A Poll

Hi Wally, thank you so much for posting a poll about future GCPBA direction.
As a lifetime member of the GCPBA, I wanted you to know, the first 4 issues you should think about addressing are not listed on the poll. They include:

1) Should the GCPBA participate in another "Firewalk" meeting with the River Concessionaires Trade Association, The Commercial Motorboat Passengers Association, and American Whitewater, without letting the GCPBA membership know?

As you are well aware, the GCPBA signed a ten year Memorandum of Understanding with the River Concessionaires. The agreement is posted here:
http://gcpba.org/2010/08/30/memorandum-of-agreement/

The membership found out about the agreement a year after it was signed, and not by an announcement from the GCPBA board. The GCPBA is still under the obligations of this agreement until the 26 day of January, 2015.

So issue number one will be to come clean with your membership. Does the GCPBA Board plan to repeat the above action again?

2) Wilderness. Not mentioned once in the 9 available survey options, wilderness protection for the Colorado River in Grand Canyon, and the Greater Grand Canyon, you would think, would rank somewhere on the list of issues to deal with. Wilderness means checks on commercialization and the spectrum of commercial concessionaire services, and wilderness means equitable access.

3) Equitable Access vs. More access. The survey notes "More access for private river runners, summer, winter, shoulder seasons, or over all." The question is not More. What if the river cannot handle More access? The question is about "timely" and "equitable" access. Neither are listed as issues of importance, but they are a part of the GCPBA mission statement. A whole host of river runners play and lose the lottery, year after year, while concessions passengers pay and go, year after year. And no one seems to mind that concessions passengers seem to be doing more than one river trip a year. That is neither "timely" nor "equitable" yet it is not listed as an issue.

4) Everything else. All the issues listed, including "other" and the issues just around the corner we are not yet aware of, are important. They all will need organizational advocacy. It's a big job.

There you have it, thanks for asking. Yours, Tom
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Old 08-26-2012   #3
 
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Orem, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
And no one seems to mind that concessions passengers seem to be doing more than one river trip a year.
Tom, I agree with most everything that you said. However, as a commercial guide I would be interested to know your source of information for the above "seems" statement. The passenger list that is turned in to the NPS contains the names, birthdays, and addresses of each participant. Granted, someone paying to go on a trip could falsify their identity since driver's licenses are not shown at the ferry, but I have never heard of anyone doing this.

Thanks,
Tom H.
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Old 08-26-2012   #4
 
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Flagstaff, Arizona
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Hi Tom H., Thanks for your note. Interestingly enough, I was told this by a river quide. The commercial passenger did just what you suggested. No photo id check, and off they went. Yours, tom
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Old 08-26-2012   #5
 
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Summit County, Colorado
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Interesting! I think it's time for some transparency and conflict resolution.
Coon
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Old 08-26-2012   #6
 
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Orem, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
Hi Tom H., Thanks for your note. Interestingly enough, I was told this by a river quide. The commercial passenger did just what you suggested. No photo id check, and off they went. Yours, tom
Hmmm. If this has happened then maybe an ID check is required at the ferry. Most people fly there and have to show ID to pass security. They are told that we need the info for the one trip a year law so they shouldn't have a problem with this. Well, there is always that one that would throw a stink. But we have them sign a liability waiver, you don't sign, you don't go, no exceptions. Should be the same way with the ID.
In thinking this through I imagine the park service has decided that it would not be worth the required manpower for the ID checks. I would be interested to know if it was discussed. I would think it was.
Tom
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Old 08-30-2012   #7
 
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Hi,

This poll is set up in a way that uses a unique identifier for the different internet venues where we advertised it. Please note this does not identify poll contributors; the Survey Monkey link is just different for each listserv, forum, or bulletin board where we announced it.

As of yesterday, not a single Buzzard had taken this poll.

Agree or not with everything GCPBA does, this is an outreach effort that gives the boating community a chance for input -- to provide information that will be used when GCPBA's Board meets with Park officials and works on GC river issues.

Note that we didn't confine this poll to just GCPBA members. As a former GCPBA Vice President, and now Secretary, I can tell you that we value feedback and suggestions from the wider boating community as well.

So if you want to have an influence on the thinking that goes into GCPBA's activities and its interaction with the Park, this is your opportunity. Please take a few minutes and go to https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/SLZB7ZM

Thanks.

Rich Phillips
Secretary, GCPBA
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Old 08-30-2012   #8
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Rich - thanks for the reminder. Survey answered.

Maybe folks were distracted by the attempt to turn this thread into a pissing match.
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Old 08-30-2012   #9
 
Pugetopolis, Washington
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Voted.

Stop the bitching(almost Every thread I read) and voice your opinion. It takes one minute.

The GC Escalade project is one of the biggest threats to this natural wonder of the world,IMO.
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Old 08-30-2012   #10
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Took the poll. Tom seems to be passionate and knowledgeable. I don't know the full history but I would think treating him as a great resource with a different perspective rather than a nuisance would go a long way for all involved.
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