GC PATL clear up questions - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-01-2018   #1
 
galaxyknuckles's Avatar
 
Vancouver, Washington
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
GC PATL clear up questions

So I have been applying for a GC permit for the last two and a half years, and always enter the followup lotteries as well. I have always done this solo. Clearly this is a losing formula of which I am aware. I am now getting some close friends together to register as PATL's for the 2019 main lottery. I have read the FAQ's on the GC permit webpage, and have searched the archives here for my questions without finding a clear answer, but I apologize if it has been covered before.

1) You can only be listed on one lottery per person. That means that everyone listed TL and PATL's, are only listed for the five dates chosen by the TL whom completes a lottery application right? Or does that mean that you can only apply once for the dates listed and everyone has the option to apply for separate dates and still list the others as PATL's on their own lottery app? Basically, do I just place one application, or does everyone apply for different ones and list each other?

2) Does that mean that only one registered person has to pay the $25 application fee? The one who actually applies for it, or does every listed PATL also have to pay?

3) Once consent is given by PATL's, do their points automatically get pooled for the dates listed on the application? Meaning if I have four first-timers listed on an application, does that mean that 20 points will be applied to the 5 dates listed in the application? Rather than my single 5?

I feel like I understand it mostly, but I just wanted to check the community who has more experience to clarify before I submit my application this year. Just want to make sure that I am maxing my chances correctly without breaking the rules. Thanks.

galaxyknuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-01-2018   #2
My name isn't Will
 
Will Amette's Avatar
 
Willamette Valley, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 137
1. Your name can APPEAR in the lottery just once. It can be either as PH or as PATL.

2. The fee is for the lottery application irrespective of how many PATLs are listed. It entitles the applicant (potential PH) to play follow up lotteries all year. If your friends want to play follow-up lotteries, they will have to pay their $25 which is good for the whole year. When applying in follow up lotteries, each person may APPEAR only once.

3. Points are not pooled. In fact, if you apply for a permit and a dozen of your friends are listed as PATLs on ONE lottery application and you all have five, your application has five points. But, if you also list ME as PATL your application only has one point because I was on the water in 2017.

The point of a PATL is simply so that if the PH is unable to go for some reason, the rest of the trip can still go. If you have a permit with no PATL listed on the application and you dislocate your shoulder or get thrown in jail, nobody else on your trip gets to go, and the date is released back into the pool of follow-up lotteries. You might maximize your luck by splitting into groups of two or three and submitting multiple applications. This gets your group more exposure in the lottery, and provides some level of protection against a major injury ruining the trip for EVERYONE.
Will Amette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2018   #3
Misspellingintothefuture!
 
mattman's Avatar
 
Tabernash, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,901
Ya, what he said. Your best odds are if everyone enters the Lottery with no one being a PATL, but is risky if TL can't go, then your trip is off.

Also do as much as you can to go on someone else permit. The more other river trips you go on, and meet other boaters, the better your odds of getting invited on a trip. Having resources helps, like most of the gear a trip could need, cooking good, playin music, all that shit of course. I think there is a GC facebook page you can join as well.
Figuring out how to have a more flexible schedule can help a ton!!

Lucky enough to have gone twice, and both times were invites, and ya know, that's Ok, the TL worked there ASS off with planning, but I still got to go, and it was easier for me then if I had won.
Will still keep applying, and would love to return the favour.

Sorry for the rant, best of luck in the Lottery, and hope you get to go soon!
__________________
We can't always agree, but we can still be civil to each other.
mattman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-01-2018   #4
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,182
Statistically...the odds are not in your favor if you just apply for one date. Depending on the dates, its anywhere from a couple percent to less then one percent chance. Winter trips are definitely the highest likelyhood. The weeks before shoulder season is over and the weeks after it starts again in the fall are probably the hardest but summer time trips aren't much better.

I think you got your answers, but to reconfirm...

1. Any one person can only be listed once in the main lottery as EITHER a primary applicant/permit holder or as a primary alternate. Having another primary applicant as your PATL has a good chance to annul both of your applications.

2. Fee is per applicant but also counts towards follow up lotteries. If you win, you have to send $400 (or $200 for small trips) to lock in the date.

3. You have a maximum of 5 points per application in the lottery. This is the equivalent of having your name in the hat fives times. The person with the lowest amount of points is the one who counts in the lottery...so if you haven't been down but your PATL went down last year...you get one point in the lottery. This is to keep people from putting their 90 year old grandmother on the list as the primary for someone who went last year as PATL (with the intention of her suddenly not being able to go and transfering the trip).

It is statistically unlikely to win more then one date among you if you and 15 other friends apply...so I would say get as many 5 point people to apply as possible (this is anyone who has never been or has not been in 5 years) for close to the same dates. If you trust everyone and know they will make it, you can risk it and do it without PATL's, or split it down the middle. Worst case is several of you win a date and you either cancel or have two trips and be able to have twice as many people. If you get really lucky you'll have it within a few days of each other and can still hang out down there. Technically two trips can use the same camp (not encouraged but allowed) so you could even have it be a super big trip.

That was longer then I intended...but I hope it is useful. Hahaha....it might not get me into everyone's good graces, but I've had pretty good luck just getting on with other people and not submitting many permits. This is mostly due to my work and its transient nature so its hard to know what I'll be passing on to go on trips. Its also WAY easier to just hop on a trip rather then lead it. I do usually try to chip in on the planning and such when a TL needs it.
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2018   #5
 
galaxyknuckles's Avatar
 
Vancouver, Washington
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks all!

I knew that I would get the clarification I needed here. I think that I will just have everyone apply for there own permit to up our chances without listing a PATL.

I hear ya on the not being the trip leader and having to organize the whole thing. I would rather just join a trip, but I am dedicated to getting on a GC trip before I die, so I am networking to make it happen. Any way I can run the ditch would be awesome for me. I am painfully aware of the low percentage of winning, so whatever I can do to improve that.

Also get my new boat sometime later this month, hopefully meet some more boaters this season out on the water here in the NW as well.
galaxyknuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2018   #6
 
Phoenix, Arizona
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3
You can add PATLs that were on the old waiting list and their points can be added to yours. When I applied and won a 2014 spot, I had five points and added two friends as PATLs that were on the old waiting list. Each of them had six points that could be added to mine. So I had 17 points going in.
Epicrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2018   #7
Top Quality River Gear
 
Cascade River Gear's Avatar
 
Boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1960
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyknuckles View Post
Thanks all!

I knew that I would get the clarification I needed here. I think that I will just have everyone apply for there own permit to up our chances without listing a PATL.

I hear ya on the not being the trip leader and having to organize the whole thing. I would rather just join a trip, but I am dedicated to getting on a GC trip before I die, so I am networking to make it happen. Any way I can run the ditch would be awesome for me. I am painfully aware of the low percentage of winning, so whatever I can do to improve that.

Also get my new boat sometime later this month, hopefully meet some more boaters this season out on the water here in the NW as well.
I had a group of friends ready to get on their trip 2 years ago (private) and the TL had a horrible life incident that left her unable to go on the trip, because there was no PATL listed EVERYONE on the trip lost out, after taking the time off work and spending all the $$ to make it happen. Just my two pennies. Watching my bummed friends broke my heart.
__________________
Cascade River Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2018   #8
 
flite's Avatar
 
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 115
Is it still true that you can transfer the permit to an immediate family member if you don't have a PATL but can't make the trip?
flite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018   #9
 
Colo Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1980
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 700
flite - Yes, I think so, but only if that person didn't put in an application himself for a launch during that year.
David L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018   #10
 
galaxyknuckles's Avatar
 
Vancouver, Washington
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 20
I guess we will probably split into two groups: get a few more dates, but also hedge against losing out completely if the winner can't go.
galaxyknuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any interest in being PATL for August 2023 (!) GC trip off waitlist? thundermonkey Rafting | Trip Planner 3 01-17-2018 10:38 AM
GC change PATL DIRIGO Rafting | Trip Planner 17 12-16-2016 12:07 PM
lost cable and lock at Clear Clear (ark) take out go-with-the-Flo Lost & Found 0 06-20-2016 07:57 AM
Questions... So many questions mark_vanis Whitewater Kayaking 0 06-16-2014 10:59 PM
This should clear up some questions Livingston Whitewater Kayaking 57 11-10-2004 11:21 PM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.