Cost Sharing Agreement for Tatshenshini Trip - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 01-18-2019   #1
 
Salem, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Cost Sharing Agreement for Tatshenshini Trip

I have a Tat permit for August 2019. We have a group of 12 sharing costs, which makes the trip affordable. Due to the high cost of the trip and the fact that some costs must be paid in advance, I think it would be a good idea to have a cost sharing agreement between the parties. Does anyone have an example of an agreement like this? Thanks.

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Old 01-18-2019   #2
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Mesa, Arizona
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Just get the money up front. If someone drops out, and a replacement is found, the drop out gets a refund when the new participant pays. If no one replaces the drop out then the money is forfeited. Paper agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on. This is the way I run all of my trips.
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Old 01-18-2019   #3
 
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Kalispell, Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
If someone drops out, and a replacement is found, the drop out gets a refund when the new participant pays.
That also encourages the dropout to help find their own replacement!!

If not full deposit, a 50-75% deposit would be more than reasonable for a trip of this magnitude (or of any magnitude!).


Even on lower-cost self-outfitted Middle or Main trips where all participants supply gas and groceries, there are still group costs. I've paid 50% up front and thought nothing of it.
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Old 01-19-2019   #4
 
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I’d do a non-refundable deposit of $200 to secure a commitment (significant enough that it weeds out those that are uncertain and enough to cover the permit fees). Then break the payments up in stages. A payment due when you need to secure shuttle and transport. A payment due when you have to shop for food. And final payment prior to launch. All with the understanding that if you bail you lose money unless a replacement is found. I’ve gotten royally screwed when people backed out a week before launch.
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Old 01-19-2019   #5
 
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Mesa, Arizona
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Originally Posted by JakeH View Post
Id do a non-refundable deposit of $200 to secure a commitment (significant enough that it weeds out those that are uncertain and enough to cover the permit fees). Then break the payments up in stages. A payment due when you need to secure shuttle and transport. A payment due when you have to shop for food. And final payment prior to launch. All with the understanding that if you bail you lose money unless a replacement is found. Ive gotten royally screwed when people backed out a week before launch.
The main issue with lay-a-away trips is the amount collected never covers their actual financial obligation to the trip if they drop out. If 2 people drop out and aren't replaced the cost of shuttles, rental gear etc. are shifted to the remaining participants, which is unfair. Go on a cruise and you pay airfare and cruise and any incidentals in advance. I don't know of any type of vacation where one isn't fully invested financially well before the trip begins. I see no reason why raft trips should be the exception.
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Old 01-19-2019   #6
 
St. George, Utah
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When we did out Tat trip we had two people who drove up with the gear. The others drove flew up. We compensated as much a possible those who drove up for their expenses and shared all other trip expenses except flights to Alaska and lodging. Each person was responsible for their own flights to Alaska.


I agree with Rich H get the full amount up front. I always try to collect more that I expect a trip to cost and issue refunds after all expenses are tallied.

Have your trip members check that they will be allowed to enter Canada before they commit to the trip. Many legal issues can be grounds for denial of entry.
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Old 01-19-2019   #7
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
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You are the PH or TL for one of the most remote and expensive trips in the northern hemisphere, if not the world (o.k., Tibet is on par).
You want to somehow "lock in" everyone you've invited in terms of a financial commitment?
Instead of trying to craft some kind of ultimately non-enforceable "agreement" either give firm deadlines for receipt of deposits/funds or seek different 'pards. Or both.
I've never stiffed anyone on expenses for a river trip after committing to go, that maybe has happened twice in 40 years. (Maybe - but I paid whatever was owed). On the other hand, I've only been stiffed twice for expenses, once on a Grand trip and the other for a no-show that I kinda' knew was coming...
Over 45+ years of running trips (well over 100, just don't count anymore) if you can't trust your "participants" to do the right thing, find new ones...
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Old 01-19-2019   #8
 
The white room., Utah
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Originally Posted by B4otter View Post
You are the PH or TL for one of the most remote and expensive trips in the northern hemisphere, if not the world (o.k., Tibet is on par).
You want to somehow "lock in" everyone you've invited in terms of a financial commitment?
Instead of trying to craft some kind of ultimately non-enforceable "agreement" either give firm deadlines for receipt of deposits/funds or seek different 'pards. Or both.
I've never stiffed anyone on expenses for a river trip after committing to go, that maybe has happened twice in 40 years. (Maybe - but I paid whatever was owed). On the other hand, I've only been stiffed twice for expenses, once on a Grand trip and the other for a no-show that I kinda' knew was coming...
Over 45+ years of running trips (well over 100, just don't count anymore) if you can't trust your "participants" to do the right thing, find new ones...
I found the Tat. cheap. Take a look at the Firth and any remote Fly-In-Out. Tat isn't bad because of the fish plant and easy put-in. Anyway, get it all up front. That is a trip people bail out of because of the logistics.
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Old 01-19-2019   #9
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I’ve never Been on the Tat and can only imagine the cost. I’m also envious. To the OP safe travels and have fun.

Out of curiosity if you don’t know the full price in the early stages how do you “charge” everyone their share up front? Things like food cost are going to adjust by number of folks on the trip.

I don’t think a contract is going to be enforceable but monetary commitment with non refundable deposits/payments would help defray costs.
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Old 01-20-2019   #10
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeH View Post
...if you don’t know the full price in the early stages how do you “charge” everyone their share up front? Things like food cost are going to adjust by number of folks on the trip.

I don’t think a contract is going to be enforceable but monetary commitment with non refundable deposits/payments would help defray costs.
I've never been there either, but it seems like it should be easy to ballpark expected costs and have significant milestone up-front payments for the trip that will keep folks focused and committed to coming. Forget the contract idea, having $$ in the bank is a lot more tangible than a piece of paper. If someone doesn't understand that a significant monetary commitment is required and that you want the peace of mind of knowing you won't get stiffed by someone bailing out at the last minute, that should be a big red flag.

One maxim I really like is, "a good client is better than a good contract." Even if you can successfully take someone to small-claims court and financially recover all that's due, it's still a gut-wrenching and costly process that you'll never be fully compensated for.

All that said, get the $$ up front, delegate the planning tasks, and have a great trip!

-AH
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