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Old 01-09-2020   #51
 
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Golden, Colorado
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
I think that's the entire crux of this discussion.

If LNT is important, then AIS is equally important.
If AIS is important then perhaps our planet should be considered important.

This is what climate change looks like.

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Old 01-09-2020   #52
 
Salida, Colorado
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Originally Posted by GeoRon View Post
Yes, Marshall, I take the future of our planet personally. I speak not only for myself but for future generations who won't mind living here.

Well, you don't speak for me, nice that you take on the responsibility of ensuring the "group think" "Hive mentality" and "protecting our planet.

However, this does not give you carte blanche to make personal attacks on others, calling them F'ing assholes. You seem to think that by tearing others down, denigrating them, that you build yourself up, perhaps in your own mind, but not in anyone else's.

You might follow the age old mantra, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.

Or alternately take Noahfecks advice.

Don't bother replying to me, I'm done with this thread unless something should manage to pop up that was on topic, but that's unlikely now that you're here.
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Old 01-09-2020   #53
 
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Pueblo Reservoir is a good example of the state doing something positive to combat the spread of mussels by deconing every boat that was last launched on other lakes than theirs. If you don't have a Pueblo tag on your boat when you show up to the ramp, off to decon you go.

Seriously folks, it is not hard or a bad thing to go through the decon station. They do all the work as you start and run your motor and run the switch to fill and dump your ballast tanks and live wells. They soak your anchors and ropes for you. They are all really nice to talk to. I have never had a bad confrontation with any of the rangers at any of the lakes I've been to. They take their job seriously and do a great job of it. But it is up to us to do our part too. here are a couple of interesting articles on the subject.


https://cpw.state.co.us/aboutus/Page...ra-Quagga.aspx

https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/defau...ce_species.pdf

In the sport of caving, cavers are up against a fungus that is killing off very large numbers of bats and totally devastating bat colonies in the US. It is called White Nose Syndrome. White-nose syndrome is the result of a fungus called Pseudogymnoascus destructans that invades and ingests the skin of hibernating bats, including their wings. It causes bats to wake up more frequently during the winter, using up their limited fat reserves very rapidly.

To combat WNS, we as cavers decon all our gear between trips, even though we are not in an area that this fungus has spread to yet. It's microscopic like these mussels start off as and sooner or later it will end up spreading to every state. The bats spread it among themselves when they hibernate so there is no way to effectively keep it from spreading. But as cavers and National Speleological Society members we do everything we can to eliminate the possibility from humans spreading the disease.

How do we do it? We soak all our gear in hot water for 20 minutes. Things like lights and cameras are wiped down with bleach or Lysol. We police ourselves and loan gear to visiting cavers from out of state. The NSS membership is at the forefront of studying and teaching the public how to avoid spreading WNS by way of human contact.

For more on how you can help and to learn more about it, check out this link.

https://caves.org/WNS/
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Old 01-09-2020   #54
 
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OK, as a pasty-faced geologist type, I'll wade into the whole "the climate has changed throughout history and so this is nothing unusual" argument.

Yes, the Earth's climate has changed many times over geologic history. However these changes have typically taken tens of thousands to millions of years allowing species to adapt as the changes occurred. The only times the climate has changed as fast as it's changing now have been as a result of catastrophic events like really major volcanoes, meteor impacts, or some other things, and the rapid changes have been really bad for life on the planet. Humans will almost certainly NOT go extinct as a result of Global Warming / Climate Change because we're very adaptable, however lots of other species will.

As to the fact that the change we're experiencing is caused by humans, currently almost every major group representing researchers in the Earth & Atmospheric Sciences, including the main acknowledges that Global Warming / Climate Change is the result of humans pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. Insurance company actuaries, not really a nest of tree hugging libruls, recognize this, and even Exxon knew about it ~40 years ago. The US DoD takes it pretty seriously too.

This whole concept that CO2 can cause global warming was first proposed over a century ago by the chemist Svante Arrhenius in 1896. This theory's been batted back and forth among the scientific community and is generally accepted for at least the past 30 years. Here's a good summary on the long-term trends by NASA.

George W. Bush was the one who began using the term "climate change" instead of "global warming". This was because "climate change" was determined to be less threatening to voters according to Republican pollsters.

Here's a really good graphic illustration of how Earth's climate has changed in the past 20,000 years ("recent past" if you're a geologist) and how it's changing now: XKCD Earth Temperature Timeline.

Scroll down the chart and see how fast the climate changed over the thousands of years that comprise the end of the last ice age, then see what's happening right now at the bottom of the chart.

Now could we please get back to boating?

-AH
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Old 01-09-2020   #55
 
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Thanks caverdan and Andy. Great info.

For what it is worth, in the Western Rivers Report posted on MB, as a reminder, I have tagged river names with ZEBBRA! DCD that might require decontamination after use. These rivers terminate in Lake Mead, Lake Powell or Roosevelt Reservoir. These reservoirs are know to be contaminated. DCD means DRAIN, CLEAN, DRY!

This assessment is based on the following map and other research. I'd appreciate feedback.

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Old 01-09-2020   #56
 
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Thank god........back on track again.
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Old 01-09-2020   #57
 
Defiance, Colorado
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Originally Posted by GeoRon View Post
This is what climate change looks like.

Nice try! 184 fires are confirmed to have been started by people intentionally ignoring the fire ban. 24 confirmed arsonists several responsible for multiple fires, 47 from smokers throwing out cigarette buts, 53 criminal citations issued. Perhaps you know very little about Australia, but it's always hot and dry in the summer time, this year there is a rash of stoopid humans.


I notice that you are still killing the earth with your damaging CO2 emissions, lead by example.
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Old 01-09-2020   #58
 
Defiance, Colorado
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Andy,
Thanks for a well thought out post. The USGS approach seems more reasonable than most. I am an all of the above guy for reasonable changes to our future energy needs.


I do disagree with some of the "science" used in the quoted models and there are some obvious flaws in the methodologies. There are also several contributing climate modifiers not even addressed in the modeling (natural decreases in earths Vulcan activity, deforestation, shifting magnetic poles, astrological events beyond our solar system, ...). The chronological graph was interesting but left me with several obvious question not answered by the source material.



I do appreciate the non-sensationalist approach and I believe that any forward progress will be the result of rational thinking like yours.
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Old 01-09-2020   #59
 
Salida, Colorado
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Originally Posted by noahfecks View Post
Andy,
Thanks for a well thought out post. The USGS approach seems more reasonable than most. I am an all of the above guy for reasonable changes to our future energy needs.


I do disagree with some of the "science" used in the quoted models and there are some obvious flaws in the methodologies. There are also several contributing climate modifiers not even addressed in the modeling (natural decreases in earths Vulcan activity, deforestation, shifting magnetic poles, astrological events beyond our solar system, ...). The chronological graph was interesting but left me with several obvious question not answered by the source material.



I do appreciate the non-sensationalist approach and I believe that any forward progress will be the result of rational thinking like yours.

I as well disagree with a lot of the "science", and agree that the climate is indeed changing, I'm sure CO2 plays a part in this, but not sure what part WE as humans in the US play. I tend to think more toward China and India as major polluters in the grand scheme of things, much more so than the USA, however we're pretty much the only "entity" to do much about it.



I'll Echo Mr. Fecks statement about the non sensationalist approach, and totally agree that the solution, will be a rational approach, not the current Chicken Little "The sky is falling, and we can prove it with this questionable research.
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Old 01-09-2020   #60
 
Denver, Colorado
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Originally Posted by noahfecks View Post
Nice try! 184 fires are confirmed to have been started by people intentionally ignoring the fire ban. 24 confirmed arsonists several responsible for multiple fires, 47 from smokers throwing out cigarette buts, 53 criminal citations issued. Perhaps you know very little about Australia, but it's always hot and dry in the summer time, this year there is a rash of stoopid humans.


I notice that you are still killing the earth with your damaging CO2 emissions, lead by example.
Yea, no. Stop the BS.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/envi...ation-n1112736
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