Cataraft Frame Sale Scam - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 11-19-2016   #1
 
duct tape's Avatar
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Cataraft Frame Sale Scam

I was informed yesterday by two different sources of a scam using a photo of my cat frame for sale. This is interesting since the frame is still in my garage and not for sale. I've tried to post the Portland Craigslist item (now taken down) at the bottom of this page.

You can see in the below MB thread from 3/15 the same frame pics which I posted. In the CL ad the picture is oh so cleverly flipped left for right so no one could possibly see it was the same (insert bold sarcasm font).

https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f...ame-56731.html

I'm told this ad was by James of Canyon Inflatables, and later Rogue, and maybe other companies (can't keep track of them all) fame. This is second hand info so my apologies if not correct, but I'm thinking it's right.

I'm posting this mainly to let other MB folks know of this scam. If you're buying this frame, you might want to take a close personal look at it, since it's not in Portland or elsewhere in Oregon, but rather in Colorado.

And also posting to publicly shame whoever the scammer is. This is lame. As several have said earlier, including me, your stuff looks good, it's just your business model and integrity that suck. Now you can't even come up with a pic of your own frame you're trying to sell? I'll quote from a few lines I wrote in a different thread, uncannily about the same purported person:

https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f...gue-58189.html

I'm sorry to read CWI's opinion of internet posters, and Mtn Buzz. It's really a pretty small world, rafters, and like it or not for many of us who don't live in say Grants Pass, Boise, Denver, or other places where you can directly try and compare various rafting stuff, this site and others are primary sources of equipment and river information. I've very much enjoyed lots of great advice here, while certainly learning that like anywhere else some people are esp important to listen to and others maybe less so.

It's both an unfortunate and fortunate fact, depending on how you look at it, that it does matter what other people think of and say about you and your company. As I frequently tell my kids, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it.


I've talked to Dave Nissen at Madcatr and he was aware of the sale of the frame and we discussed the info above, specifically that my frame, although pictured in the ad, was not for sale. As always, Dave is a great guy and has been a joy to work with, become friends with, and most importantly use his great equipment. I also did notice in the MB classifieds that Ted Day (boicatr) has a Madcatr frame for sale. Ted is also a great guy and all should be aware his frame sale has nothing to do with this scam.


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Old 11-19-2016   #2
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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[IMG][/IMG]

Hopefully the CL ad pic went through this time. Amazing resemblance of the two frames!
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Old 11-19-2016   #3
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Tabernash, Colorado
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Wow.
Will that shyster never go away?
Very nice frame you have Duct tape, those Mad Caters look awesome!
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Old 11-19-2016   #4
 
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Coquitlam, BC, Canada
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How Ironic - I was surfing Craigslist in a few different cities just looking at random rafting stuff and I saw this ad a few days ago.I then linked this ad onto the WRRR (Washington Rec River Runners) Facebook page in the event someone might be looking for an awesome cataraft frame. I remember seeing the pictures from when you bought/built/got your frame last year and I knew this was your frame but I didn't review your thread or where you lived and just figured you were selling it for whatever reason. I have since amended my Facebook post on WRRR by noting it is a scam and linking to this thread in the comments section.

And even more ironic, is my Dave phoned me earlier this week to tell me that my MadCatr frame was going into the powder coaters this week for it's powder and clear coat! Woohoo!!!

The common theme I've seen in a certain scammer is "they" think they are subtly leading a horse to water with the greasy way "they" do things. Now that we have a rough idea of who it *may* be, when you look deeper into the wording of the ad, you can see the subtle shots that are being taken towards MadCatr. Here are some examples:

"I was on the waiting list for over 8 months to get this frame" (It is true that there is a long waiting list for their frames, but there IS a reason for this.....).

"The frame works perfect on 12' pontoons. I had it on a set of Sotar tubes but they are not for sale" - Why just 12' pontoons? If they are 22-22.5 hell even 21 or 23 they could work on 14' or 15' or even 11' tubes. Note how they mention that they WERE on a set of Sotar tubes but they are not for sale implying or insinuating that the fake poster is not satisfied with this frame since they are keeping the tubes and must be going with another option (gee...what option would that be....).

"I also bought the extra cargo boxes besides the rowers seat" - Well I'm pretty sure I can say that these aren't some off the shelf item that you buy but that they were custom built by Dave and the frame was built to work with them.

Also note the price - $750 is a frickin bargain for that frame. We know it is probably worth over twice that new and most would sell it for $1000 or more as is. The entire thread is worded as if the poster is deeply dissatisfied with their frame and that they are trying to skid it.
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Old 11-19-2016   #5
Shapp
 
the grove, Oregon
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Well that is a bummer, I got bit by the scam. I emailed the guy about right after it was posted and this is the email thread back and forth.

Shapp . <adress deleted>
Nov 17 (2 days ago)

to craigslist
If there is anyway I could buy it on Friday, I would do it. I don't need to inspect first $750 is good for me if I can jump ahead of those guys coming on Saturday.
Cheers,
Jason
phone deleted

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 1:23 PM, craigslist 5878461104 <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey Jason
I would do that but I have taken an extra shift tonight so I can have tomorrow off. I have to leave early and head all the way down to Coos Bay to get my new frame. I have to go over to my Storage on 205 Saturday to drop off the new one so unfortunately that is the only day I have to show the frame.
Trevor


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Shapp . <adress deleted> wrote:
If neither of the 2 in front of me take it, I'll buy it 100% your price is fare. Let em know if those other 2 don't take it. I am in Forest Grove and can pop into portland easily.
Cheers,
Jason

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 8:24 PM, craigslist 5878461104 <[email protected]> wrote:
I am 5'11 leaving adjustment both ways so I presume it would work well for you. The frame is like new and shows no damage or scratching. I purchased it after reading and recommendations from an online forum so never got a chance to row one.

Only reason it is for sale is I found a style of frame I like better that is more suited to me after demoing through another company. If you would like to see it let me know I have two people in line for Saturday at this time. It comes with Daves flip lines also

Thank You
Trevor


Shapp . <addess deleted>
Nov 17 (2 days ago)

to craigslist
Well the bottom line is, I am prepared to pay $750 and will buy it 100%. I'll meet you when ever to pick it up and won't haggle on the price. I can meet you anytime you want to pay/pick it up. Let me know if you just want to make the deal now and set a pickup time.
Cheers,
Jason
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Old 11-19-2016   #6
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Well Shap I'm glad you didn't get burned. I'm not sure what "Trevor's" game is. Maybe he really has another frame to sell and is just too lazy to post a real pic. Or maybe he's hoping to get sent money without delivering anything. ???
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Old 11-19-2016   #7
 
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Sounds to me like he's more interesting in trying to get you to ask about his new frame and not the supposed MadCatr he has to sell.
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Old 11-19-2016   #8
 
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I get that sometimes frames look alike, but trying to pass one off that's sitting on a very distinctive blanket is really dumb. Gee, how amazing that the blankets are identical, and have wrinkles in the exact same places.

A new twist on the old "bait & switch" scheme?
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Old 11-19-2016   #9
 
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Sure that isn't a cataraft frame but instead a special welded table frame for serving food by madcaterer?


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Old 11-20-2016   #10
 
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Coquitlam, BC, Canada
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Hey Duct - quick question - what color is your frame exactly? Is it "silver hammertone?" That's the color I got which is supposed to be sorta close to the AIRE chafe strip colour according to Dave.


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