Alternate Trip Leader Nonsense - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
 
Grand Junction, Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 5
Alternate Trip Leader Nonsense

So I accepted being an alternate TL for a San Juan trip and now I can't apply for the lottery. Some BS.

I called Rec.gov and they said if you don't assign alternate TLs during the application process and are awarded a permit it is up to the discretion of the facility (BLM office) if you can assign an alternate. You can no longer assign an alternate on Rec.gov.

Another Rec.gov fuck up. Big surprise.

Please correct me if I have been given bad info (

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
 
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 72
The same rules apply for the grand. You either apply for your own permit or are a PATL on someone else’s. These have been the rules for a long time. It prohibits people from being a PATL on many people’s application who don’t actually intend on using the permit.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,733
The SJ is not the Grand Canyon. Is there a stipulation for the SJ that you can only go on one trip a year? If not, there is absolutely unwarranted.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
 
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 72
True, you can go down the SJ more than once per year but as far as the lottery goes, you still only get one ticket in the hat you know as well as I that permits are becoming increasingly hard to get. Now, image that some people have 10 tries to your 1. Is that fair to everyone that is playing the game above board?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
 
Arnold, California
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
The SJ is not the Grand Canyon. Is there a stipulation for the SJ that you can only go on one trip a year? If not, there is absolutely unwarranted.


The stipulation is not how many trips you can take per year but how many lottery dates any person can select (4).

I got an interesting email when a friend listed me as a PATL on another river. It simply said “click here to accept the PATL” (paraphrasing). This was even though I had already applied. The email didn’t mention you can only be on (1) lottery application. I can see potential frustration if someone was not paying attention and clicked it only to later get disqualified for being on 2. Since I didn’t try it maybe there would be a automated warning that says your lottery submission will be canceled.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
 
Whitefish, Montana
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 23
I can understand the frustration if you didn't realize the rules when you accepted the PATL role.

That said, the whole point of a lottery is that it's relatively fair. If you could PATL on multiple applications and lottery under your own name, the door is open to unscrupulous boaters essentially buying higher odds than the rest of us get.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
 
Arnold, California
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkness View Post
That said, the whole point of a lottery is that it's relatively fair. If you could PATL on multiple applications and lottery under your own name, the door is open to unscrupulous boaters essentially buying higher odds than the rest of us get.

Really? There’s unscrupulous boaters out there?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
 
Seattle, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 122
I get the rationale for not allowing people to both apply for a permit and be listed as a PATL, especially on the GC. If you could do that I would be tempted to convince all of my non-boating friends and family to apply with the intention of them transferring the permit to me.

I am curious how common it is for folks to actually list a PATL? It just seems bizarre that someone would agree to be a PATL versus just submitting their own application.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 508
Not sure about the limit on permits through recreation.gov but I currently have five different rivers in for next summer and they’re still excepting my dates and money. You might want to try again as I found nothing on the website to have any limitation on the amount of permits you can have.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
 
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkashzg View Post
Not sure about the limit on permits through recreation.gov but I currently have five different rivers in for next summer and they’re still excepting my dates and money. You might want to try again as I found nothing on the website to have any limitation on the amount of permits you can have.
Multiple permit dates for the San Juan (or other rivers with that restriction)...not multiple river permits in general.
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