Alternate Trip Leader Nonsense - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #21
 
k2andcannoli's Avatar
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 892
Fake IDs for river permits are real.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #22
 
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Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,712
Friend of mine and I list the other's respective spouse as PATL on our own permits.

If I draw a permit and I can't go, odds are 100% my wife won't be going...and same for him. If I can't go and they can, his wife can be the TL (and he'd be the "de-facto" TL).
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #23
 
Pullman, Washington
Paddling Since: 92
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 327
I was to be on a trip a few years ago that had to be cancelled due to illness and no PATL, this was before they changed the regs to allow for spouses to be added after the initial permit application. The group cancelled and was able to pick up a permit for about the same time the following year (with a PATL listed). The beauty was that we had another options and ended up launching the day before the original and was able to get friends places with the original group the following year. It was pure river karma. Not having a PATL makes me really nervous.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #24
 
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 151
It seems that it would be fair for the NPS to let everyone be a TL on one application and a PATL on one other. It would not change anyone's overall chances of winning, would avoid people gaming the system, and every trip could have a PATL. Of course winning a permit would automatically void the PATL status on the other. Even if someone did game the system and had a ringer with high points, the lower points of the gamer would void them out.
For the SJ, there is a note on their page saying a PATL can be added after a permit is won by calling the office.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #25
 
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
"It seems that it would be fair for the NPS to let everyone be a TL on one application and a PATL on one other. It would not change anyone's overall chances of winning, would avoid people gaming the system, and every trip could have a PATL."

Even easier, just allow the TL and PATL to combine points. Just treat it as one entry with 5+5 points (or 5+1 or 1+1 or whatever). That solves the issue of a 5 and a 1 trying to work together. Also solves all of this stupidity by not penalizing people for having a PATL.
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