Afternoon disaster in Grand Canyon? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 12-10-2013   #1
 
Tom Martin's Avatar
 
Flagstaff, Arizona
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Afternoon disaster in Grand Canyon?

Hi folks, I am curious... has your oar powered trip in Grand Canyon had a late afternoon motor boat pass your trip by and snag a camp you were headed for? If you would like to send me a private reply, that's fine too. E-mail is [email protected] Thanks, tom

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Old 12-10-2013   #2
 
Glen Vegas, Florida
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Old 12-10-2013   #3
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
Hi folks, I am curious... has your oar powered trip in Grand Canyon had a late afternoon motor boat pass your trip by and snag a camp you were headed for? If you would like to send me a private reply, that's fine too. E-mail is [email protected] Thanks, tom
If you want a camp just speak up and communicate and things work out usually. Sounds like somebody got their panties in a wad.
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Old 12-10-2013   #4
 
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Orem, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
Hi folks, I am curious... has your oar powered trip in Grand Canyon had a late afternoon motor boat pass your trip by and snag a camp you were headed for? If you would like to send me a private reply, that's fine too. E-mail is [email protected] Thanks, tom
Disaster??? Are you kidding me Tom? Always stirring the pot. I have on multiple occasions motored past an oar trip, found out where they wanted to camp and left it open, only to find out that they didn't take that camp.
Its the friggen Grand Canyon. I have camped in places so small that everyone ended up sleeping on the boat or in the kitchen. It doesn't matter where you camp it can still be a fun camp.
Is this because they locked that other thread?
I am curious ... what possible use will this information be, particularly if you are getting just your angle on the question?
Yours,
Tom Too
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Old 12-11-2013   #5
 
boulder, Colorado
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While I love to be on the Grand without any motors, we have had nothing but great interactions with outfitters and guides. I'm sure it could happen but I have never experienced someone sneaking up a nabbing a site. Towards the end of my last trip an outfitter gave us a few blocks of ice and a case of beer.
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Old 12-11-2013   #6
 
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Hi Kikii,

Once you understand Tom's pervasive anti-Park, anti-motor, anti-commercial world life view, many of the other things he does come into focus. This does seem to be sort of a blatant new approach -- openly fishing for information that he can use to advance those strongly held biases.

Of course, he's free to do stuff like this here, on his list, or pretty much wherever he wants. And I'm sure what he describes happens occasionally, just as I saw three trip splitting/camp jumping episodes in September -- by privates who were rowing. (And as you point out, he didn't ask for any countervailing information.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tom is a smart, experienced, articulate fellow, who has done some good things for the GC river community, particularly with his publications. But as a tool for real learning, this inquiry brings back that old saying about, "The plural of anecdote is not data."

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
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Old 12-11-2013   #7
 
dillon, Colorado
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No the motor rigs have always been very accomodating and polite. If you had an issue with one of the guides you should take it up with the specific company you had a problem with instead of trying to create an "us" vs "them" rift. We are all boaters.
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Old 12-11-2013   #8
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
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Most private trips are advised to contact a commercial motor rig if they need help.

And, in fact, on one of my bud's GC trips they flipped a 18 ft gear boat and were having a hard time getting it upright. A commercial motor rig came by, stopped and without being asked got on the tubes to do the roll over. Hugs and waves from our crew and they motored off down river.

When in trouble in the GC after the Ranger's, commercial motor rigs are a welcome sight!
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Old 12-11-2013   #9
 
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KENNEWICK, Washington
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Really Tom?

This type of inquiry or data collection does not serve the best interest of boaters in the GC. I am sure it has happened to both private and commerical trips. But even with my limited experience in the GC I believe it is the exception.
I have been down the river twice in the GC. Once in July and the other in October without motor rigs on the river. I was impressed and pleased to experience the friendliness and professionalism of the commerical outfitters on both my trips. We talked on the river everyday and worked out camps that would suit us both. The guides willingness to help any priviate boater on the river was impressive. Let's face it the commerical guys help out and save more people than anyone else on the river.
I was a commerical guide for 12 years in the Northwest and know what it is like to be on the river with other boaters who don't know what they are doing.
As always there are two sides to every story and I believe if you have a problem with a guide or outfitter, talk to them like an adult and work it out. I have yet to meet an unreasonable or rude guide in the GC.
Everyone who is lucky enough to get a ticket to ride in the GC are there for the same reasons. Why spoil it by trying to create a problem or push a personal agenda.
Just sayin...
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Old 12-11-2013   #10
 
Aurora, Colorado
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Out of five private trips, the only time that a commercial trip took a camp we told them that we'd like to stay at, we deserved it. Our TL started spewing bullshit about how he had to wait 17 years while the commercial guests could afford to buy the place, and how they didn't have any right to ask him to move his boat out of the pull in part of the eddy at Havasu. This all in front of the guests. I stuck around with the boats and a guide in the harbor and chatted and tried to apologize to them, but being a commercial guide myself he was understandably pissed that they were insulted right in front of their guests. It was bullshit, and I called out my TL that evening around the fire with everyone listening. We had gotten every camp we asked for up to that point, and after that, they took the camp we said we were after every time we saw them. Can't blame 'em for that.

The Us vs. Them rift can grow mighty ugly in a hurry if we're not careful to remember that we're all there together enjoying the place, and to me, more importantly- the people.
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